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Fully Grown Homos Podcast
Behind the Wall: Male Escorts in Australia
When we stumbled across a documentary called "101 Rent Boys" from 2000, we couldn't look away. The raw, often heartbreaking stories of male sex workers in Los Angeles captivated us and sparked a deeper conversation about how male prostitution has evolved over the decades.
These men's journeys into sex work frequently began with trauma – being kicked out of home, experiencing abuse, or falling into drug use. Yet surprisingly, some chose the profession purely for economic reasons, including one married father who earned more as a sex worker than he could at conventional jobs. Their stories prompted us to explore Australia's complex history with sex work, from the notorious "wall" in Darlinghurst where male prostitutes once gathered to today's digital platforms that have transformed the industry.
What shocked us most was discovering how dramatically prostitution laws vary across Australian states. While New South Wales decriminalized street-based sex work back in 1979, Queensland only decriminalized it in August 2024 – literally weeks before we recorded this episode! This patchwork of regulations creates dangerous confusion for sex workers and reflects our society's ongoing struggle with how to approach sex work.
We dive into fascinating research about who actually hires male escorts (spoiler: the average client is a 54-year-old employed white man), debate what our own escort advertisements might have looked like in our 20s (Dave insists he would have been marketed as "fit, young blonde, hung"), and explore the essential services sex workers provide to people with disabilities and others seeking connection.
Whether you've ever been curious about the economics of sex work, its legal status, or the human stories behind the profession, this episode offers an eye-opening look at a world that exists in plain sight yet remains largely misunderstood. Listen now for our most revealing conversation yet.
If you want to send us a question or would like our thoughts on a particular topic you can contact us at Fullygrownhomospodcast@gmail.com or contact us on any of our socials at Fully Grown Homos Podcast.
Welcome to Fully Grown Homos, a podcast about our adventures as fully grown homos, navigating today's world full of inquisitive, friends' questions about gay life and the unexplored activities of a life lived as fully grown homos.
Speaker 2:We'll discuss the gay 101s, sex sexuality and topics we don't even know yet, as we want your input into what you want to hear. Nothing is off limits, so email us on thefullygrownhomospodcast at gmailcom or message any of our socials.
Speaker 1:Fullygrownhomospodcast. Welcome to this week's episode, dave, of the Fully Grown Homos podcast. Good afternoon.
Speaker 2:Matthew, good afternoon. This is not a Sunday day, it's a Monday. It's a Monday today.
Speaker 1:It's a Monday we ran out of time. Yesterday we did, and why was that then? Well, well, let's, let's, let's. We'll hold off on that, because we do it as part of the weekly wrap. Well, as part of the weekly wrap which was coming up real soon. Anyway, yeah, have you been? Yeah, not too good.
Speaker 2:I know you've had the man flu. Yeah, I have definitely. So if I'm sounding a little bit head-cold-y, that's because I'm recovering from that.
Speaker 1:I can always pitch shift and make yourself different.
Speaker 2:I've had a lot of coughing fits, as you know.
Speaker 1:You have, you have. I'll try and mute you if that happens.
Speaker 2:Getting up early in the morning and not being able to sleep properly. But hey, I'm on the mend, so that's a good thing.
Speaker 1:He's pregnant, it's not mine. Well, we don't know yet.
Speaker 2:We haven't done the test yet.
Speaker 1:Could be anyone's.
Speaker 2:This man is a whore Well sometimes, Sometimes, Sometimes.
Speaker 1:But let's do this. Some attitude please. I'm grown and feeling fine. Snap those fingers, sip that wine, Get your fix. No need to nap. It's Dave and Matt with the Weekly Wrap. Yeah, it is. It's our Weekly Wrap, Dave. Now what have you been up to this week?
Speaker 2:Well as usual, matt, I'm still completing the renovations.
Speaker 1:Fucking doing renovations. That's unusual.
Speaker 2:I know, I know, but it is getting closer towards the end now.
Speaker 1:Oh, it is so busy outside. Last week you took down a couple of trees that make the house look fucking amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, we've also been putting in a new driveway, but we couldn't put the concrete down because of the weather yep, so we were due to do it this week and unfortunately the rain is forecast for a whole week.
Speaker 2:Yep, so I'm praying that either towards the end of the week it'll be dry enough for us to do it, or the weekend at the earliest at the moment is the opportunity for us to do the concreting yep, so once that's down, it's done. I mean it only needs 24 hours for it to sort of like set on top. So it's just a crucial part for the first 24 hours. So Saturday and Sunday next weekend are meant to be the best Meant to be, fine, yeah, but otherwise, yeah, I mean I've been busy outside painting. You haven't been over there for a couple of weeks, so you haven't seen it yourself.
Speaker 2:I haven't seen it for a long time so once the front's done, then all that will be left is the back of the garden. Now, depending on finances and stuff like that, will depend on how much I get done at the back, but hopefully that will come good and hopefully I'm hoping that by October I should be complete and ready to go on the market, because we're halfway through August already, because my builder's got other jobs on at the moment so that's going to hold me back a little bit. But look, I mean I think the deck and everything else will take a couple of weeks to do. So if I can get everything done while he's preoccupied doing other things like the trees removed and stuff like that, then that'll save time as well. Yeah, yeah, so let's hope Full steam ahead. Yeah, full steam ahead. I'm praying. I need it to be done. I'm just over this one. This has been. I've had enjoyable parts of it.
Speaker 1:It's going to be great. It's going to be one of your best ones yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in terms of profit-wise, and you know the look of it.
Speaker 1:In terms of the change. Yeah, it's been a flip. It's been a a hell of a flip, whereas, I mean, the last one you did was definitely a flip as well. Yeah, because you definitely redesigned the whole place and everything like that. Yeah, but it wasn't as much as this one, but this one. Here you've changed pretty much fucking everything. You've left one room the same, pretty much and that's it.
Speaker 2:That's it, that's right, yeah like one room, that's it pretty much, but it's just. I've had a lot of health issues, as you know.
Speaker 1:This time around Pregnancy will do that yeah.
Speaker 2:I suppose you know, but, look, I think excuse me, I just think I'm just over it at the moment. I just want to finish so I can take a little bit of a break, take a step back and then re-evaluate the next one. Yep, take a break. Before the next one, I'm definitely not doing one with a tree involved.
Speaker 1:No, in one with a tree involved. No Trees, you can go concrete front and back.
Speaker 2:I think the trees have just done my head in, I think.
Speaker 1:Yes, they have. They have definitely indeed, definitely indeed. Buddy, what about yourself? So, I've had a good week at work. You had a lot of visitors last week, didn't you? A lot of visitors at work and stuff like that. I had a funny story. Funny story I had a locksmith come and quote me.
Speaker 2:And I don't talk about work often I'm just going to adjust my mic, so if you can hear this, that's all right. You do that. You won't hear? You talk, you talk.
Speaker 1:So I had a funny story at work. We had a locksmith come and do a quote and basically that all got approved and he rang me up to tell me he was coming to visit on a Friday to install the new locks and stuff like that. Great, cool, awesome. Then on Thursday I get a phone call and this guy I answered the phone with where I work again and he said can I book 18 holes for Saturday afternoon?
Speaker 1:And you say I'm used to that I don't work on a golf course, funnily enough, you can take 18 holes, can you? Well, I said I don't work on a golf course, funnily enough. All right, he can take eight holes, can't he? Well, I said to him look, mate, I think you've called the wrong place. This is where you've called right. Gave him my workplace and he went oh, is this Matt? And I went yeah, and he said this is such and such the locksmith. And I went, I said he said, oh, I'll see you on Friday morning. I said yeah. I said, well, I can organise 18 holes for you if you want. And his response was really, really quick. He turned around and he says if I'm talking to you, I'm just going to organise the back nine, to which I responded really quickly. Well, I'm a bit of an expert in that field. So I said we'll see you Fridayiday morning. It'll be a great morning.
Speaker 1:Um, so, so there was a bit of banter and he was like he was quite a. You told me he was ginger. Yeah, he was ginger. I love ginger. So that tall, thin, ginger, a little bit balding, but still had ginger hair. Um, but, but, not bad.
Speaker 1:But the fucking lo and behold, come friday morning, my boss fucking shows up with the top-notch visitor as well. So I kind of couldn't even flirt with him, couldn't even put the hard word on him or say, oh, how about that back nine? Or anything like that. I couldn't do any of it. It was really disappointing. But it was fun and it was definitely a fun story, and I went oh, I don't talk about work on the podcast, everyone knows that. You all think that this is my full-time job. Now, guess what? It's not um, um, but I couldn't not bring that story because I just thought it was too good. Well, you got his number anywhere, haven't you? I do got his number, I do have his number. So you got his name and and his name and all that kind of stuff around grinder.
Speaker 1:I tried that, but um, he didn't show up.
Speaker 2:But hey, but maybe because he's one of his workmates.
Speaker 1:He was doing his 19 holes and he's unlocking my locks and relocking my re-cam. Yeah, well, I'm going to fucking taste it. Maybe he left one off intentionally, because it was you he wanted to see me back.
Speaker 2:Maybe you were the 19th hole mate, maybe I was, maybe you were the hole in one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe I was. Maybe you were the hole in one. Yeah, maybe I was, maybe I was. But apart from that, we went to church on Sunday.
Speaker 2:We did. Yeah, well, actually you went out with the girls, didn't you? Oh, I did.
Speaker 1:I went out with my girls. I went out with Ness, amber and Cleo and we went and seen Rocky Horror versus Grease, which was a fun, fun Friday night. It was like they played. It was a live band with the live singers and they played songs from Grease first and it was so much fun because it was all that banter and all that kind of stuff that a live band gives you and she was fun. But there was audience interaction I'm not, oh, participation, because everyone was asked to get up and dance and stuff like that and that as well.
Speaker 2:I'll just stop you there. So when you say they did one song and then another song, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:They did the whole of Grease first. So the whole story, not the whole. No, no, no, no, no, no. Just songs from Grease, right? No, no, no, no, no, no. Just songs from Greece, right? Not all the songs either, just the popular ones Were they encouraged for that.
Speaker 1:Yes, slash, no. So they'd put on a different jacket or a different dress, right, right, for different songs and stuff like that, like different wigs and that as well. So when she was Sandy, she had like the long blonde hair which was actually naturally hers Right and the sort of sandy virginal type dress and things like that, yeah. But then when she was Rizzo, she'd put on this ratchet ass wig which was really horrible.
Speaker 2:She knew it was horrible. It was tongue in cheek, so there was just one female One singer, one female vocalist and one male she was phenomenal. Male vocalist.
Speaker 1:There was a guy vocalist, the main one. They have a backing group as well. Then they had like a keyboardist, a guitarist, like a bass guitar guy and drummer, and drummer and a saxophonist, a sax guy as well, oh nice. He was really good. But then the other guitarist, he sang, or didn't really sing, but he did one or two of the songs he harmonised yeah.
Speaker 1:He did one or two of the songs and it was quite cool because he played, like sort of when we got to the Rocky Horror part, he did the meatloaf part, which was like Eddie Right, yeah, he was eating meatloaf but yeah, but it was actually really really fun, but did it flow well. Yeah, really really well.
Speaker 2:Because in my mind I can't picture.
Speaker 1:This is what put me off going with it. Act one was Grease and act two was Rocky Horror.
Speaker 2:Right, because I thought it was going to be like half the characters were going to be Grease and half were going to be Rocky Horror. Well, that's what we thought they were going to be doing a single show and they were going to be bouncing off each other, so they had no expectations. I thought it was going to be like they'll sing a great song and then they'll reply with a Rocky Horror song.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what we thought, and we thought that maybe like there was a part of it when we sat there and we thought that would have worked better, but then, once we'd seen the whole show, we thought that wouldn't have worked at all. So they actually knew what they were doing.
Speaker 2:Do you show, we thought that wouldn't have worked at all. So they actually knew what they were doing.
Speaker 1:They didn't get right away with the money, yeah okay I'll go again. I will go again because it was. It was a lot of fun. The whole place, like the whole of panthers, was packed right there were some people that really, really, really got dressed up.
Speaker 2:We've been to shows where the person that's been on the stage hasn't really had the audience that they need. Yeah, and it's been disappointing and they've been really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know it's good that they're full, but it was fun Okay and it wasn't super expensive.
Speaker 2:I mean, I, you know for me, I just didn't know what to expect, so that's why I didn't go, yeah, but I'm glad that you enjoyed it, but it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:So we had All of us had fun there. And then Ness went and had another date. It wasn't a date. She was meeting a toy, a toy she's calling them toys, right. Which is so cool, yep, because she showed me a photo of the toy that she had the week before, right, and he was like very, quite hot.
Speaker 2:Are they younger or older?
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, yeah, I know Holy crap, go her.
Speaker 2:Go her Fucking love it, I love it. That's so cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great. It's great. She's living her best life, that's for sure, and loving it which is great, absolutely. But the fact that she's calling them toys is so cool, it's so cool, she's such a well.
Speaker 2:they all, they all are.
Speaker 1:All the girls. Yeah, they're amazing.
Speaker 2:They're amazing girls All my girls are amazing girls.
Speaker 1:I still reckon they should do a podcast, so if you are listening, they are, they will, they definitely will get their ass over here, because there would be such a good podcast and I don't know why, but I thought that they'd already been over To see the house, but they hadn't yet. No, I told you that they hadn't. I didn't know that. But yeah, but, yeah, so, yeah, but so, yeah, so we'll get them over.
Speaker 2:Well, they'll have to do a podcast with us won't they?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they'll have to come over and we've got plenty of mics and plenty of everything.
Speaker 2:Yep, and they'll have their excuse, and then we can badger them into doing their own podcast, because I think it'd be epic. Oh, their podcast especially.
Speaker 1:Amber, I want her to do a travel podcast. I think it'd be great.
Speaker 2:Well, all of them, I mean they're all going on holiday soon, aren't they? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they all went, just come back for one. But then we went to church. Yes, we did.
Speaker 2:So we spent. And for those of you who don't know church, we haven't been for a while, have we?
Speaker 1:Because we haven't needed to those of you that don't know what church is, just so we can clearly define. Because if you and thank you, but church is basically a sex on premises venue, right, so you pay your money and we're going to do a full. Danny Boy has actually asked us to do a full, not guided tour, but like a full episode on what happens where you do it. So we're going to do it real Well. We actually met one of the managers yesterday.
Speaker 2:We did, we did, and this is the thing. He's someone I've seen before, but I didn't know he was a manager. Yeah, we think we've blown him before and he's a nice looking guy. Yeah, he's very nice, he's not a guy, but I mean they're heterosexual. I know that both the couples own that place.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't think he is. No, he swings. Yeah, well they're heterosexual, but they're swingers. Yeah, but he's a good-looking guy. He was a good-looking rooster, yeah, for sure. Yeah, but yeah. So we went to Sex on Premises, we went to Arrows which is the one that ride on me and it was an okay day. It wasn't as busy as it has been.
Speaker 2:It turned out to be quite successful. Yeah, and we met Clay there. Yeah, we met Clay. He was there. We didn't know he was going, because we thought he was going to be with his family this weekend. Yep, because he had his daughters and his son's birthdays. He's 21 today.
Speaker 1:Yep, correct, but yeah, but he turned up, which is great. Yeah, but we had a couple of other little rounds we did. Yeah, it was fun. The first guy, holy fuck. The one with the beard, yeah, and a fat cock, nice, tight ass that I ripped open for him. But yeah, he was grateful, he was very happy for that, he was enjoying that a lot, but yeah, it was yeah it wasn't as busy as it has been for a couple of weeks. It was still okay.
Speaker 2:We saw a few people there that we know we got the job done. Yeah, like you said, we go there and we chat a lot as well, don't we? Yeah, we do, it's like oral sex followed by normal sex followed by talking, followed by talking, followed by more sex Lots of stuff and that's pretty much been our week.
Speaker 1:Survivor started.
Speaker 2:That's exciting.
Speaker 1:Survivor was great Survivor's always great.
Speaker 2:Prior to that, we decided to watch a documentary. This is where we're going to go with the podcast today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, today's podcast is going to be based on, because I was scrolling through and sometimes we just don't know what to watch. Yeah, and I said to you I put on WOW TV and Dave went what's this? Because it's all drag. I don't know if it's RuPaul's channel herself, but I know that there's a that's where all drag race basically lives, right, not that out TV that I couldn't log into properly.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's why I thought we watched it.
Speaker 1:No, we watched it on Wow TV, which is RuPaul's, where all the drag is.
Speaker 2:That's why I was going to choose, and.
Speaker 1:Dave went. What the fuck are we watching? We're not watching this shit, right, because he got all masked on me right pretended he was a man, right.
Speaker 1:And I said just chill, I'm just scrolling down, I will show you something. And so I went into the documentary section and then, as I was scrolling through, he's going what's that? And it was a show called 101 Rent Boys, right, which obviously 101 men took Dave's fancy straight away. So I said do you want to watch this? And he said yeah, sounds good, right? So let's give it a bit of a synopsis, because it says it in the title pretty much Okay, there's 101 Rent Boys. So boys rent boys. For those that again aren't in the know, they're male prostitutes or male escorts for hire, obviously. So they actually did this film back in 2000,.
Speaker 2:We found out Because we were trying to work out the year. We sort of got it down to a T. We thought late 80s, sorry, late 90s, early 2000s, yeah, based on the decor and stuff like that and their clothes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I did some Googling and it's actually directed by and produced by Fenton Bailey and Randy Barbato. I don't know who the fuck they are, but it was yes.
Speaker 2:June, it was based in LA, wasn't it Based in San Francisco? Based in San Francisco? Oh, okay, june, it was based in LA. Wasn't it Based in San Francisco? Based in San Francisco? Oh, okay, it was Santa.
Speaker 1:Monica, Sorry. Based in oh, it says. Oh no release date there. So yeah, it was based in LA, yeah, and stuff like that. So yeah, because a lot of them walked the boulevard Santa Monica Well, I think a lot of them won't be with us anymore. Yeah, well, like I said, based in 2000,. And quite a few of them said they were like 34, 35.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they put 25 years on. That would be the same age as what we are now, 25 years on from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so mid-50s 60s. Mid-50s, early 60s, some of them, if they're still alive. Now based on some of the, I guess, and it was sad. Oh, it was extremely sad, like it was really good, like really good, really informative, yeah, but really quite sad at some of the parts Because they didn't.
Speaker 2:They sort of like honed in on, say I'd probably say about 15 different characters the way through. They showed pictures and talked about people. They interviewed all of them, 101. Yes, they did 100%, no way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but throughout the thing there was little bits of, but they highlighted certain ones. They highlighted probably about 15 of them, 20 of them. Well, they spoke to 101 people. Yes, they definitely did.
Speaker 2:No, no way. What would be the point of having 101? No, because they were just talking. They would show pictures of them and they didn't talk to them. Okay, I don't know. No, there definitely wasn't 101 people talking to. They showed people and different narratives about them, but there wasn't 101 people they spoke to. There's no way. Not an hour you couldn't talk to 101 people in an hour. I've seen you buddy. But they went back and forth to a couple that were obviously more sort of like prominent, I suppose, yeah, yeah, yeah, some that had really interesting stories and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But it was just really sort of like quite. It took me back a little bit because I was expecting them to be all drug-fuelled and there was a few that were drugs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was a few that told, I guess, their personal history of how they got into it and stuff like that. So they paid each one of these guys 50 bucks to talk on camera right and tell their story.
Speaker 2:And 50 bucks 25 years ago was a lot of money, I suppose. Well it was. They were happy with it, weren't they?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were very happy with it, right. But yeah, they paid them the 50 bucks and they basically asked a series of questions and things like that.
Speaker 2:Now some of them got naked, but you couldn't see it because they're pixelated. Yeah, they're pixelated, which is really disappointing.
Speaker 1:I'm sure there's an uncut version somewhere.
Speaker 2:There's a few good-looking guys on there wasn't there. Yeah, yeah, but there was a lot of sadness to them the way they were talking. It was almost like they were broken men, weren't they Correct? So a lot of them had run away from home or there was some sort of sexual act that had happened to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they'd been molested all of a sudden as children and stuff like that, so a lot of them had been kicked out of home quite early on They'd taken drugs and stuff like that. It took them down a slippery slope, which was like really quite sad. But then there were some that wanted to do it as a career choice. Oh, absolutely. So it was actually some of them, but some of them.
Speaker 2:But there was one guy in particular, that black guy that he was married with kids. Married with kids, yeah, and he chose to do it as a profession. So his wife allowed him to go off and have sex at night because it paid a better wage than it was for him to have a normal job. Yeah, and he, by all accounts. He said he was making good money and he was looking after his family in a very, very well-to-do manner wasn't he?
Speaker 2:He was doing quite well, quite well from that, Obviously you know he was enjoying what he did and he didn't sort of like say he was gay or whatever. He just said that you know he was married and had kids and that's all he mentioned in that regards. But again, you know, it just goes to show you that you can have a job but not have to be in a particularly dominated group of people.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, correct, correct, so you don't have to be… it becomes a job rather than a hobby.
Speaker 1:But the thing is that if you're like a lot of the…. So I'm not completely au fait with the escort world, obviously I know little bits about it, right, but I know that in Thailand, for example, when I went to Thailand the first time, right, I didn't want to go and see one of the ladyboy shows, for example, or the ping pong shows, sort of thing. So my ex my partner at the time, which was now my ex he took me to this gay show, right, and basically a lot of the men there. The acts that they were performing on stage right were just for the stage and he said that him and a friend of him his years earlier hired one of those guys, right, because they walk around with little bikini type, little underwear, bikini type things.
Speaker 1:On what do I want to say? Yeah, underwear, basically gold underwear, right, and they had a little number on the side and all you had to do was say I want number 16 or number 18, and then you'd negotiate a price for how long you want them for and all that kind of stuff. Then you'd hire them for the night for 300 bucks or whatever it was, and then what you did with them was up to their discretion. So, um, but they hired somebody, um, not for the intent of having sex with them, but they actually wanted them because they were fairly new to Bangkok. They wanted this guy to take them to all the really cool gay bars that the locals go to, because they were going to be living in Bangkok. Now this guy said well, I don't know where the cool gay bars are, because I'm actually straight. This is just what I do for money, if you want me to do this Was he Thai?
Speaker 1:He was tie, but he was basically gay. For pay right, yeah, um, and he said most of the guys that actually worked there. So they, basically, he said, just ended up sitting. He took him to a straight bar right where he would normally go out with his friends and hang out and all that kind of stuff. But they sat around around and talked. He bought them drinks, they bought him drinks all night and stuff like that, as if they would. They gave him a really good pay packet because they said we had no intention of having sex with him or anything like that. But they got a lot of information from him and stuff like that, so he was like a guide, more so than really, yeah yeah, pretty much, but.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but he said 90% of the people over there that are working in that particular bar were all straight and just doing it for the money.
Speaker 2:Okay, Right, because it paid a lot more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so, I think so, okay, but yeah, so it's very interesting that I guess it's economics, isn't it really? It's about having a job, having a secure job.
Speaker 2:It would be interesting, though, because obviously the competition between the ladyboys and those type of people Different people, I guess, looking for different things, yeah, but what I'm saying is I mean because they would classify as them stealing their clients.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but.
Speaker 2:I'm not. You know how bitchy you can be in that regard.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, so you know but if I'm looking for somebody to spend some time with, it's going to be a man.
Speaker 2:That's a man no, I know, but what I'm saying is some people prefer to go off with ladyboys because they're kidding themselves. They believe that well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the battle you'd end up having there would be between women and the lady boys yeah, that's sort of male at the end of the day, aren't? They yeah, you know, that's it like full surgery. Yeah, correct, correct, correct. But that's we didn't get on here to talk. We didn't bring this up to talk about um, yeah, we're talking about. Yeah, we're talking about yeah, no, but what I'm?
Speaker 2:saying I'm just asking you comparable, because you were there. I wasn't there, yeah, yeah no, no, no, no, I'm just so we're thinking, we're not deviating, that's unusual for us. What I'm saying to you is I wasn't there, so I'm just asking you a general question as to what I would ask.
Speaker 1:So we did do a little bit of research on this. Did you go up with anything? No, okay, god, no, I don't know, no, I was in a monogamous relationship. Of course you were, or so I thought History passed. It's funny like that, but yeah. But when I was there, though and you can tell me what your thoughts are on this, right, so I'd get massages every single day. Yep, every single day I'd get a body massage of a morning and a foot massage of an evening. Now, when you're talking, a foot massage, Every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh shit, it's the best.
Speaker 1:Oh my God. No, it was amazing. It was so good.
Speaker 2:It was I-fied anyway, god.
Speaker 1:No, well, you need to go to the proper places.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, they're just so intense. Yeah, it's great, I love it.
Speaker 1:No, but you ask for relaxation, you don't get the one where they bend.
Speaker 2:and oh, I asked for relaxation and I got a fucking pounding.
Speaker 1:Not from the back end, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:But my back was fucking killing me.
Speaker 1:afterwards you can tell them not to go so hard, but anyway, the ones that I went to, and again one day I'll try and remember the name of the place?
Speaker 2:Were you using male? Okay, okay, I had female DMOs and they were fucking tough as fuck male masseuse massage therapist or whatever they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the therapist but when they do your foot massage even, they end up doing your whole body. Basically, the only difference is that you stay completely clothed, right, but do they start on your little toe first, but when you're doing your body massage, the place we went to was a government run place, and I I can't remember the name of for the life of me, um, and I've tried to tell somebody a million times and I tried to google it and well, the government place yeah right, not run by the government, but it's. It's like licensed. It's not a dodgy back alley place, it's literally it's probably about like eight floors, right, right, just for massage, right, and it's like it's a proper spa, it's legalized.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, proper, proper, proper, proper, proper.
Speaker 1:About four? Yeah, right, but way above board and stuff like that, where nothing really happens Until you get to 69. When nothing's supposed to happen. Put it that way right, yeah, but you go in, they've got a shower, the massage bed, all that kind of stuff, so they ask you to shower before you get on the massage bed. If you're uncomfortable, they give you paper underwear to put on, Otherwise you can be naked.
Speaker 2:It takes you so much more, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah well, paper underwear, I don't give a fuck, so I just lay in and I'm okay with being naked. But then occasionally they'll give you the tickle and try and give you the tug and stuff like that. Do you think that's? But they will usually whisper at you and go tip tip, tip, tip, tip. Is that prostitution?
Speaker 2:What sort of tip are they giving you, though?
Speaker 1:No, well, they're asking for a tip to give you a happy ending.
Speaker 2:Oh, they're asking you to give them a tip. Yeah, is that?
Speaker 1:prostitution? Or is that just a way of earning a little bit more money, which is actually I wouldn't say it's?
Speaker 2:prostitution though, because it's not them going out of their way and then charging you. You know what you're going for. You know you're going there for sex, and sex is the majority of the time. Some people might want to spend time with a guy and just get to know him because they're lonely. I get that, and that's the other thing that those people said. That reminded me. They all said they were lonely, didn't they? They all said that they were lonely, so that was another thing that interested me. That was sad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very sad, but no, I mean, I don't think that would be classified as prostitution. I don't think it would be. That's just extras.
Speaker 1:Getting extras. Extras are different. Extras are different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not really, but you get money for a service Because you're not going in there to solely have your cock rubbed, tickled, sucked whatever you want to be or penetrated.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you get money for extras, but I don't know it's a service that they provide Everything's prostitution, I think.
Speaker 1:Everything, Everything. You walk into a retail store and they do something. You return.
Speaker 2:It's like going to the store and you're saying, okay, there's a special on there. I'm going to yeah that's very true, but yes, anyway. So we decided that what we would do, we would do a bit more research into the current state of prostitution. Yeah versus what was Now. Obviously we can't get enough factual information from the US and stuff like that, because it's just such a big country and you know. So what we did, we sort of did a comparison.
Speaker 1:We found it in Australia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we tried to sort of like work out the difference between 2000, sorry, when that film was made, or documentary, to the current state of play where we are at the moment. And we've got a few facts, haven't we? Matt?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, so I guess, for setting the scene right. So if we look at the difference between the 1980s Australia versus now, right? So some of the main things that I've actually got listed here and I will be reading them because my brain don't do that remembering thing but I guess the biggest one from the 1980s to now would have been the AIDS epidemic, homophobia, the police crackdowns and stigma surrounding sex work. Many male sex workers operated underground or in hidden environments. And that's versus now, which is, the legal frameworks are clearer in most states. Online platforms have shifted, how clients and workers connect and cultural attitudes towards LGBT plus community identities have shifted, towards LGBT plus community identities have shifted. So that would be the main big difference from that point in view.
Speaker 1:Now I know that I guess if we look back to 2000s, 1980s, when the AIDS epidemic was in, now we've got some very vast differences now with the things of prep and all that kind of stuff. Now Sex work is legitimate work. Now there's a need for it in our country and there's always been a need for it, but it was always so frowned upon and it was just. It was always hidden, underlined. I mean, I remember as a young boy um, I got in the car with my sister and all her friends and we drove into the cross and we would drive up and we'd see all the hookers um talking female hookers female yeah right, but they'd be walking the streets, um, they'd be standing out front of the car yards and stuff like that all the way up William Street, all the way through King's Cross.
Speaker 1:I just had my license and so I had my license. So I probably would have been about the 1920s, something like that, maybe because all my sister's friends were all very much still underage, yep. But we told our parents we're actually going to the drive-ins, to a double feature.
Speaker 2:That's a different sort of driving-in, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:And so I took them in there and it was like all of them, all of them still remember it to this day. So you're a bad influence, I'm definitely a bad influence. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Yeah, and I'm still a bad influence to this day, but every single one of them still remembers and like to the point where they remember, they know what was happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I wasn't dragging them again there against the wheel, we were all. We all decided that's where we wanted to go. It's a bit of fun. So a bit of fun on a saturday night or whatever night it was, yep, um. But then, like, as we were driving through the cross, we'd be sitting there and we and remember seeing the women there but were they sleazy?
Speaker 2:Do you know when you see these sort of TV shows? No, not really.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, kind of because they were standing against the car, but did they look like they were?
Speaker 1:They looked like they were hooking Right okay, 100% right, and some of them had these gigantic tits right and these little tiny skirts and things like that, and they'd be yelling out at you as you're driving past slowly hey, honey, would you like a good time? Do you want to spend some time with me? And stuff like that. Like we drove slowly through the cross, because that's what everyone did back then. Like you drove slowly but we had our windows down and stuff like that. And I remember this guy and he was like a naked guitarist and he'd come up and he started playing guitar.
Speaker 2:He was a prostitute, no, he was just like some street entertainer A naked guitarist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he had like his guitar on but just covering like his junk. You could see his ass and everything like that. But he'd come up to the window like playing the guitar and everyone's like roll the windows up Because there was no press buttons in the Gemini.
Speaker 2:You'd be rolling the windows down.
Speaker 1:I would be rolling down and go show me. Let me strum that for you, buddy. No, because I definitely was not out at that stage. Oh, you were not.
Speaker 2:No God, no God no, you must have been getting off on it though.
Speaker 1:I think I was having lots of fun. Yeah okay, it wasn't the kind of situation where you've got like five freaking teenage girls or four teenage girls in your car that you're actually getting off at yeah for sure, but King's Cross was the hub of prostitution and it still is to some degree, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Now, I do recall that we drove up around the streets and up around the wall where the gay prostitution was at Darlinghurst there, yep, and I recall thinking, fuck, I hope no one notices that I know where this is right and stuff like that. So it was just like so, because it was very undercover. How did you find out about it? The wall yeah, everyone knew about the wall. Right, okay, everyone knew about the wall. So it was a common topic of conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, but then. So there was also a back street where you basically went off William Street and sort of around there and that's where all the trans people used to pock themselves off, oh really. So there was all different sections that had different prostitutes that you basically go to.
Speaker 2:Was there male prostitutes there as well? No, because that was trans women Okay.
Speaker 1:That was trans women. Like the males, like the gay male prostitutes. Was there an area for male With the wall? Like the males, like the gay male prostitutes? Was there an area for the male With the wall? Okay, yeah, that was the wall that was run in.
Speaker 2:Darlinghurst, and how describe? We parked there quite frequently.
Speaker 1:Describe it to me, because I can't think where it is. So we're okay. So if you're driving up Oxford, you know where we normally park the big cocoa sign.
Speaker 1:No, oh. So you know, when we normally you normally park Towards Oxford Street, where the Oxford is, right, yeah, if you walk up and then you'll turn left down Forbes Street and all that lot, yeah, near there, okay, near there, it might even be Forbes Street Right or the next one up, basically Right, and you've got sort of the clinics and Vincent's Clinic across the road from it, right, not the hospital, but there's a clinic like a sexual health clinic there and stuff like that. That's where the wall is, and then there's a park there where basically people used to take their trade and all that kind of stuff as well, because the cop shop is not far from there.
Speaker 2:That's where we park on Forbes.
Speaker 1:Street? Yeah, Probably no, back a couple that way.
Speaker 2:But I'm wondering if that's the reason why the cop shop was there, because of all the prostitution stuff, all the goings-on and the sex and that as well.
Speaker 1:Interesting, I don't know, but it was definitely a different time. And can you remember ever seeing guys there?
Speaker 2:Oh, I've seen guys there all the time, so describe in your opinion the difference between what the guys looked like compared to the women in terms of the prostitution side?
Speaker 1:Well, the guys were just casually sort of leaning there.
Speaker 2:They'd have their short shorts or something like that, right, okay, so they were provocatively dressed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely you could tell that they were out of the box, they were hot, they were hot, okay, like in my opinion, and while I never thought about taking one home or doing anything like that, because, again, it just wasn't for me.
Speaker 2:No, I would never pay for sex anyway.
Speaker 1:No no, well, okay, I'd say Well, I suppose we do when we go to Harry, we do technically, technically, we pay the injury fee and the buffet. But as a point of call. I don't pay individuals, I don't pay anyone for sex and I guess if we go down the massage route, where they actually ask you for a happy ending. Well then, technically, I guess I have paid, because I've had a couple of happy endings in my time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but what I'm saying is you're not out there.
Speaker 1:You know, sourcing sexual acts, no pay for no, although like this one guy that used to mess up when I was with my partner. Right, yeah, there was this one guy, um one, his name was. He was like one one, not one j-u-a-n. Oh, yeah, one one, he was like south american. Yeah, right, and he was fucking, was Yarn? That's how he introduced himself to me. All right, fucker, go fuck yourself cunt. All right, that's his name, that's how he introduced himself. No, it wasn't Yarn, no, no.
Speaker 1:I didn't say Yarn. No, his name wasn't Yarn, it was J-U-A-N. That's his name, right, my God?
Speaker 2:Tell us South Africans how you say it.
Speaker 1:Anyway. So he wasn't South African, he was like South American.
Speaker 2:He's a South African? I think no, south.
Speaker 1:American right. Anyway, he was hot and I would have happily paid him for some extra, extra, extra Okay, but I never did.
Speaker 2:Did you ever get the extra, extra?
Speaker 1:No, I didn't get any extra from him, but retrospectively I reckon my other half probably did so.
Speaker 2:age-wise, what would you say the sort of age group would have been?
Speaker 1:Oh, they were fairly young, right, fairly young, obviously old enough to do it. Oh well, this is the thing. It's questionable, right? Okay, and because I guess, as you've done some research and you found out that demographic, of what the average age?
Speaker 2:of people. Yeah, but that'll be later. I've got a bit more information before that.
Speaker 1:But I think the people that were picking them up were probably older, right, okay?
Speaker 2:I want to say older. So because as a young man I think it's typical for that. I mean you tend to get a lot more younger people prostituting and older clientele. Well, there's some good money in that. That's male and female Right.
Speaker 1:Now I just remembered this. So when I was younger, I took somebody's virginity.
Speaker 2:You bastard no.
Speaker 1:He gave it to me willingly. But then I found out that a few years later he actually went on to become a prostitute right or an escort right, and I sat there and I thought to myself I gave him some good training, didn't I?
Speaker 2:I was very proud of the fact I wasn't sure where that was going to go. I thought maybe you were going to tell me he turned in to be the Catholic bishop or something like that.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, bishop or something, no, no, no, no. He actually turned into an escort being an escort and he was a handsome young sri lankan guy like aussie, sri lankan, right um, but really handsome, like stupidly handsome that should, and so I get why he was escorting um. But clearly I taught him how to do bottoming, right um, because he was a bottom, total bottom he. He was good at it, but yeah, so yeah, he taught you a few things. Maybe I'm pretty expert. You are, I was going to say, pretty expert.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to read you a few stats, because obviously this is prostitution in Australia under Wikipedia. Yes, yes. So it says the prostitution in Australia is governed by the states and state territory laws, which vary considerably.
Speaker 1:as we know, with everything in Australia, the laws in the fucking states vary so widely and differently depending on where it is yeah, depending on you, because it makes sense, doesn't it, to have one country that has fucking hundred different laws. It grabs my fucking shit when it comes to this, it could be a bit beef.
Speaker 2:It could fucking well be. You know what I mean, Anyway. So it says Tasmania, Western Australia and South Australia operate under a condition called abolitionism.
Speaker 1:I got that right. Good word, dave, I know right, we were trying to pronounce it. I even asked Google to fucking pronounce that and she said what did she say?
Speaker 2:she said, she said that she said the way you can read it. Oh yeah, it was funny as fuck. It was like in hieroglyphics, it's hieroglyphics.
Speaker 1:She's fucking. Yeah, the pronunciation is in hieroglyphics. I'm sitting there going, that's about right.
Speaker 2:So abolitionism, yes, but we Googled it and it was something to do with the slave trade, wasn't?
Speaker 1:it? Yeah, it was about. It was like abolishment or something. Yeah, abolishment of slavery and stuff like that. So anyway.
Speaker 2:so they operate under that condition. The framework and it says where the selling of sex itself is not illegal but activities such as keeping brothels and pimping are illegal, then you've got the Australian Capital Territory operates under a legislative framework where sex work is legal but brothels must be licensed and can face criminal penalties for operating without a license. Private sex work is legal if the sex worker is working alone.
Speaker 1:Again a different condition, Different rules.
Speaker 2:And it's got. The Northern Territories, new South Wales, queensland and Victoria operate under a discrimination framework where most criminal penalties associated with sex work have been removed and brothels or prostitutes are not required to be licensed. However, all jurisdictions still have some remaining regulations in regards to whether so where prostitutes or brothels can operate and or activities such as advertising. So again, so it's a lot more freer in those states to be. It's not. It's not sort of the high levels of legislation there. You know, excuse me, it's a lot more freer in those states. There's not sort of the high levels of legislation there. You know, excuse me, there's no evidence of pre-colonial prostitution among indigenous Australians. So, basically, we brought the prostitution across with us when we came across, you know. So we can be grateful for that or they can be grateful for that, but there was trade. However, sexual practices were more consistent with modern understandings of polygamy. Polygamy, yeah, we're common. We're common, such as exchange of women to demonstrate friendships. It says so yeah so.
Speaker 1:So you'd say hey, buddy, take my wife um, yeah.
Speaker 2:So basically we are the result of, um you know, introducing prostitution to Australia. I suppose you know it's got like in 1970s.
Speaker 1:Sorry, you are, it's your English, you brought it over absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying to find that fact I told you about. I think it with like um, where was it? Oh yeah, so it says from 1970s onwards, prostitution restrictions have generally eased and in 1990 australia institute of criminology reported recommended that decriminalization of prostitution in new south wales to be decriminalized for street sex-based work in 1979, using a model subsequently adopted by jurisdictions such as New Zealand and made brothels legal in 1995. Yeah, so there you go. So since 1979, new South Wales have been basically… Street world, yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's because, again, it's economics right. So the thing is that the amount of money, I guess that came to the cross right because people would come from everywhere. And again it's all about cross right because people would come from everywhere I get it.
Speaker 2:It's all about revenue, isn't it?
Speaker 1:People would come from everywhere, like I remember Mum and the lady across the road, irene, and our friend, my friend, erin, and all that kind of stuff. Yep, the ones that we all went in there in the car Yep, yep, right, but our parents actually took us into the cross right to walk the streets, not to earn some cash but to walk the streets, and took us to these places and stuff like that it was tourism.
Speaker 2:It was tourism to show us what's out there and stuff like that. I suppose it was a norm. I suppose it was.
Speaker 1:And this is the thing is that, like you had the pink pussycat, which was like all these strip clubs and all that kind of stuff, and there'd be people out the front trying to get you to come in, and stuff like that as well. So it was very normal. And you talk about the different car rentals that, like you'd have like your Hertz rent a car or your budget rent a car that have your budget hookers in front of it, right, and then you'd have your high-end rent a car place or your high-end Mercedes and Lamborghini. They'd have the high-end hookers in front of it. So they owned their little bit of the strip based on their rankings and stuff like that as well.
Speaker 2:I would have probably liked to have gone there. You would have. I know it was a lot of crime and stuff there because of all these underworlds and stuff like that. It's a different world.
Speaker 1:And look, you still see the people out the front now trying to get you into the strip clubs and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Again, it's still synonymous for that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:It has to be it has to be Because otherwise, like you know, it can take our soul away.
Speaker 2:But going on with the narrative from Wikipedia, it says United Nations Programme on HIV and AIDS, uniaids, which issued regular statistics on sex work. It estimated that there were around 20,500 sex workers in Australia in 2016.
Speaker 1:Still quite a lot of people out there, and that's over 10 years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and.
Speaker 2:I think this is down to male prostitute, because we all know about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we asked about that.
Speaker 2:So I think that's what it's stating. So there's a lot of men out there pimping around. You know what I mean? Yeah, because it would be referring to HIV. So, yeah, and then it goes on to this is where it gets a bit weird, because I didn't know this In the Northern Territories, this act was decriminalised for sex work in only 2019. So that's a huge disparity between 1979 for New South Wales yeah, yeah, 1979. That's like 40 years, yeah, for street work and New South Northern Territories, 2009. But that said, it says Victoria was decriminalized for this work in 2023, right, yeah, and I thought, fuck, that's fucking unbelievable.
Speaker 1:That's two years ago.
Speaker 2:But listen to this. Queensland only got rid of this. This became decriminalized on the 2nd of August 2024. That's a year ago. Yeah, just over. How the fuck can a country have such standards where?
Speaker 1:every single thing You're looking at. Every state has a different set of rules, and this is fucked. So the thing is, if you moved into the state as a prostitute, as an escort or somebody that was in the sex work industry, right then you would get thrown in jail, basically because you crossed the lines and then you thought you were just doing your job and all of a sudden you didn't realise there was a whole set of new laws that applied to you.
Speaker 2:But what I'm saying is I mean. Why is it that New South Wales could see the benefits of it and again it stops all this unnecessary?
Speaker 1:So this thing, is that my take on some of the. I guess the why it's essential, right, because you do have people with handicap, it's the provider service.
Speaker 2:Of course it is.
Speaker 1:You have people that I guess that have needs that are not going to be met, right you have. Look, I think if a man has to go and get his it scratched because it's not happening at home, or something like that, I would much prefer them to go to a prostitute. You know, there's no emotional tie there, there's nothing like that, right. So therefore, go and get it done, seen to it by a professional right, rather than just going to a club trying to pick up some random. That random could potentially try and end your family, end everything at all.
Speaker 1:And then, if you talk the disability route, there's some people with disabilities they intellectual or or, um, physical, um, that they need that. They still need those. Your urges aren't going to go away just because you're not necessarily completely able-bodied, um, or of the right mind, um, so the thing is that you're definitely definitely going to need that. So I think, think some prostitutes service that, and I know that. Who was I talking to? I was talking to somebody quite a while ago and they said that they had a bus that used to take their clients to a brothel frequently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I'm waiting for you to talk with me. Sorry, go on yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's see, they would take their clients to a frequently to a brothel, yeah, but we've mentioned this on the previous podcast about having the need for sex workers.
Speaker 2:That's why I thought you would sort of recap on that. Sorry, I'm trying to find the next bit of information on my thing, but my thing's not allowing me to do it, sorry.
Speaker 1:So bear with me, I'm trying to find the next bit of information on my thing. But my thing's not allowing me to do it, your thing's not allowing you to do it.
Speaker 2:Sorry, so bear with me, but.
Speaker 1:I'm listening, so I didn't feel like you were. Well, I am listening, stop being a, but yeah anyway. So yeah, look.
Speaker 2:I've got some. Like I said, I think there's a need and going forward from that, this is why I get frustrated with the states and territories, because you can't tell me that every state doesn't have the same needs, that one state has the same needs as the other states. So providing a service like that, I think, is important, if that makes sense, yes, yeah. So what I'm saying is why is it taking so fucking long for one fucking parliamentary fucking group of people to decide that you know? Oh well, we'll, just we'll. And why? Why criminalise it or decriminalise it? Now, what was the governance of that, you know? Why did they decide that?
Speaker 1:Well, I guess it was one of those outdated laws that I guess that that potentially no one ever got found guilty of or charged of. But when somebody skimmed through and they went, hey, hang on a second, here's a law that actually really speaks to discrimination around people that are actually in the sex workers industry. So they might have gone oh shit, we better fix this. So that's possibly why it's taken so long and why it's actually been done now, but yeah, potentially.
Speaker 2:Potentially I could be wrong. I'm still trying to find this bit of information that we were talking about earlier. Sorry, go past it.
Speaker 1:It's all right. So all right, I've got a bit of a fun one for you. Go at it. All right, you might need to listen, though I am listening. All right If you were a sex worker if I was personally?
Speaker 2:yeah, what advertise myself? Yeah, what would your?
Speaker 1:what would your headline be? What would you? How would you describe myself?
Speaker 2:yeah, what'd you do um? I would say, put me on the spot right here.
Speaker 1:I know right, this is the fun. That's why I said you need to focus okay um, I would say I'm we're talking 1980s right?
Speaker 2:so you would Just say you were back.
Speaker 1:How old you were back there as well.
Speaker 2:I was 10. No, you weren't, I was 10 in 1980.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's go 1990s and make it legal, Okay 20.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I would argue Fresh chicken Okay.
Speaker 2:I'll say fit hot, ready to rock, come and give me a call and I'll what would your call number be? Oh, 6969. Come over my face, I don't know. I don't know. I mean it's hard to tell. I mean you put me right on the spot here. I'm just trying to think Are you asking me to give myself a name, or?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, give yourself. Like. What would your advertisement, like your slogan be? Oh yeah, like if people opened up the newspaper because we had those back, then I'd say 20-year-old fit into daddy's.
Speaker 2:It would have been back then.
Speaker 1:It still are.
Speaker 2:Black man I was into then as well, but I never had any. Yeah, there you go, yeah, seeking or offering friendship, companionship and extras.
Speaker 1:Deep throats, because you're really good at those. Well, I don't know if I would have been back in my 20s, you would have been fine. I have a feeling.
Speaker 2:I'd only have a throat left if I'd fucking started in the 20s.
Speaker 1:Oh, you'd probably just be even deeper, yeah you'd probably probably getting fisted from both ends by now. Oh fuck, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't be fisted either way, you're young, so what would yours be? Oh, mine would have been. You thought about this anyway. No, I didn't?
Speaker 1:I only just seen this question? Okay, because I asked ChatGBT to write me down things and just kept yes, yes, I want it all, give it all to me. But I'd probably say again in the 80s, I would have been even younger. Oh my God, you're only fucking way younger, aren't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would have been way younger.
Speaker 1:But let's take it to the 90s. I would have said fit, young blonde hung. You were blonde back then you had hair, didn't yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, young, young, full of cum, as usual Young blonde what would you offer?
Speaker 1:Oh, probably would have only offered oral your ass. No, I didn't do anal straight away.
Speaker 2:No, no, it's taken me a while. Well, same with me. Yeah, it took me a while to look up to that.
Speaker 1:We're working on clay for that one as well, aren't we? You're an animal. Stop trying to penetrate him until he's ready. Yeah, I would have said, like you know, fit young blonde, handsome because I was definitely handsome, Did you? Yeah, I know, Thank you, that's what I was fishing for. But yeah, I would have said, like you know, available for half an hour at a time, Only half an hour. No, fuck yeah, because I have said like available for half an hour at a time. Only half an hour?
Speaker 2:No, Fuck yeah because I don't want to give it all away to one person. No, I wouldn't. No, what do you reckon you would have charged?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good question. We're going by a dollar an inch or something like that. A dollar an inch, maybe a hundred an inch, so I would charge 800800. Wow.
Speaker 2:You wouldn't get that back in the fucking 1990s.
Speaker 1:Well, I happened to have $10 an inch.
Speaker 2:Well, those guys were fucking happy with fucking $50. Yeah, but that was just for a conversation Still.
Speaker 1:So how much am I charging? $20 an inch.
Speaker 2:That's $160. I reckon back then you would have been fucking $15 for a fucking shag.
Speaker 1:You would have been $15 for a shag, no way In 1990? No way 1990.
Speaker 2:You could have fucking bought a house for fucking $300,000.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm charging $300,000. Okay, there you go, I'm buying a house.
Speaker 2:Do you reckon what sort of clientele would you have gone for?
Speaker 1:Oh well, we know one that I went for or one that went for me, but I would have yeah again, I liked an older guy. I did like an older guy. I did like an older guy. I liked a nice fat cock. I still do, but yeah, probably even back then I liked an older guy. Okay, Sort of a bit of a not daddy, but definitely authority.
Speaker 2:So where would you be operating from?
Speaker 1:Me. Yeah, I would have done the wall 100% Okay Because I was fit enough, I would have done the wall Okay 100% Okay, because I was fit enough.
Speaker 2:I was because I was again, did they have, like, people checking up on them, because there would have been a lot of fucking murders? I don't know, dave, I didn't do it, I didn't get into it.
Speaker 1:No, but I'm just saying I would imagine they, and it was very dangerous to be on the wall because that's where everyone knew you were.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think they also probably would have and we need to probably do a bit more research but they probably would have had a lot of people. Actually, they would have looked out for each other as well, because if you were on the streets.
Speaker 2:You were tough. Do you know? Women have their pimps and stuff like that. Would the guys have had people like that looking out for them?
Speaker 1:Possibly I Would the guys have had people like that looking out for them, possibly, do you reckon?
Speaker 2:they would have been under will figures as well, though.
Speaker 1:Quite possibly.
Speaker 2:Because that would have been people that would have looked after them. Probably better, wouldn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would imagine so, Because, again, unfortunately, a lot of it was due to drug use and things like that. So they would have definitely had somebody that they gave the money to and they basically gave them their drugs and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Interesting though yeah.
Speaker 1:Sad times, but oh, look at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:I mean even now. I mean it's still a risky business to do anything.
Speaker 1:If you were slash are a sex worker we'd love to talk to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's in any country.
Speaker 1:I mean it'd be pretty similar, but yeah, you know, but I'd be interesting, yeah, definitely we'd love to have a sex worker on so we could ask some actual questions and get their story.
Speaker 2:I'm going to find that little segment, by the way, as well, matt oh, did you go for?
Speaker 2:it. This is basically, um, so it says a few studies of examine male clients who pay for sex with male escorts, and this is back in 2012, so we're still, you know, about a decade away. Earlier. He says clients, as in 495, who they actually got to complete this survey about their most recent hire. Okay, yeah, it says most clients were white, caucasian, ie 87.7 of those hiv negative, 89.5 percent, employed full-time, 71.1 percent, single, 58.6 percent, with a mean average age of 54, and that made us laugh yeah, because they're both pretty much sitting at 54 yeah, well, you're 55.
Speaker 2:55, just turn 55. Yeah, so that's three quarters of the clients were identified as gay, as in um, yeah, sorry, three quarters. And then it says 18% were bisexual and 4% heterosexual. So even heterosexual guys were out there looking as well, which, again, I don't quite understand it. But I don't.
Speaker 1:Well, people still identify as straight, even though we suck their dick, and it says the mean average rate.
Speaker 2:this is 2012,. Paid for escorts was $250 per hour, with a model appointment time of one to two hours.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's about 500 bucks for a couple of hours.
Speaker 2:Oral sex was the most common. I'm in the wrong game.
Speaker 1:Is it too late to start selling myself?
Speaker 2:Not really.
Speaker 1:I'll buy the kilo.
Speaker 2:You might find a new need. Nah, you never know. Nah, then you can give us all the facts then, yeah, anyway, so it says oral sex was the most common denomination 80% gave it and 69% who received it. 30% reported anal insertive sex, 34% reported as receptive sex and it says in total a few 12% reported unprotective anal sex. Satisfaction with encounters was high. Repetitive unprotective anal intercourse was associated with greater satisfaction. In bivariate analysis. I don't know what that means, but not in multivarial analysis. I don't know what this means. That's too complex for me.
Speaker 2:I won't bother going down too far after that. It was interesting to see, though you know that Whales, whales, what am I right? White Caucasian males, sorry were the highest prevented, and we saw that in that documentary. There was only a small percentage of black or African-American.
Speaker 1:American guys wasn't there.
Speaker 2:There was definitely not too many, so I don't know whether that is a bigger sort of like denomination of like people do that sort of thing. I mean Brazil's very sensual. There'd have to be a lot of male escorts, I reckon, in Brazil and they'd be well fucking fit guys, south American guys are fucking hot as fuck, aren't they?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, definitely so yeah we need to go, we need to do field trips well, yeah, we'll go out and do field trips, we'll go and hire some guys, then we can get back with more stats and find out whether they're actually true definitely, as Matt said.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, we hope that we've managed to sort of like take your mind a little way to understanding a bit of male escorts. I mean, we've got a lot more research to do and I think you know that documentary was a good way for us to sort of like do a bit of research.
Speaker 2:101 Rent Boys, check it out if you actually have the opportunity yeah, it's very sad in a lot of cases, yeah, and yeah, it was good. But you know, hopefully, you know people out there are still staying safe and, you know, enjoying what they do as best they can, hopefully, and hopefully that people benefit if they're using that sort of service as well and respect them as well.
Speaker 1:Correct, all right. So I think that wraps up our Rent, boys, yep.
Speaker 2:We should have done a song for that shouldn't we?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we should have done, but there you go. All right, but now we're on to this. They're grumpy, they're gay, they've got something to say, from traffic cues to crooked cues. They'll bitch it all away. Gabe and Max Pet Peeves All right, dave, come on, you cranky old man. Oh, you're fucking, I'm You're, I'm fine, you're grumpy. Today I was tired, right, he was grumpy and I was. I had a bit of a wave of fatigue, right, he had no sex for two hours. No, I had, probably. That's probably why I've had a wave of fatigue, because I had fucking too much, too much Viagra, too much sex, too much getting pounded. No, I didn't get pounded.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we deviate, as usual.
Speaker 1:So what makes you cranky? Hit me with your pet peeves.
Speaker 2:Yesterday again another car situation.
Speaker 1:Oh tell me. Well, it is car related. It's always fucking car related Petrol stations.
Speaker 2:Yep, waiting for the fucking petrol pump to fucking be set up so you can fucking start pumping your gas into your fucking car. They sit there and it fucking doesn't happen.
Speaker 1:You're pulling the trigger. Pulling the trigger, you're looking at the fucking shop window and there's nobody fucking in the window. As somebody that has worked in a petrol station. It's called authorizing the pump. Right, and you have to actually authorize a pump. So there is a process to authorizing the pump. What you're supposed to do is when somebody pulls up and they pulled the little nozzle out. You're supposed to do is, when somebody pulls up and they pull the little nozzle out, you're supposed to look out, assess the situation right and see whether it's okay, whether that person's actually okay to be pumping the gas from a point of view of are they smoking? Are they doing something dangerous? Are they going to be a hazard?
Speaker 2:So when I look at the window and there's no fucker there, who am I fucking looking at? This is the thing.
Speaker 1:This is the thing that gets me as well. Don't get me wrong, because yesterday, well, we were doing that and we were waiting for a long time for this little fucking do it.
Speaker 2:They were too busy fucking filling the fucking coffee machine in the back Doing something or other right.
Speaker 1:But then when we went in to get coffee, right, and we're standing there and we could hear that beep, beep, beep, and I'm thinking to myself this is why it's taken so long to fucking authorise my pump, because you're not where you're supposed to be. Now, fun fact, when I worked in a petrol station, I'd finished my shift for the day. I'd gone down to get something to eat because I worked at the Shell at Oxford Street there there's no longer there anymore right At Darlinghurst it was on Flinders Street, actually Confidence location. But I came back after getting something to eat and the person that had taken over from me right, they just hit authorise.
Speaker 1:But there was a guy there who had basically pulled the pump out. He'd pulled fuel all over himself and all over the ground and sat there and threatened to light himself on fire and blow the whole place up, right, and so the police had the whole area cordoned off and everything like that and I went, but my car's parked there because I work there and they went. Mate, your car's going to be fucking flames if this guy does what he says he's going to do. But he actually was waiting for somebody to actually come. It was a police officer, but so he was actually waiting for that. So yeah, they're supposed to look out and do all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:How are you meant to check to see if someone's going to fucking put fuel over themselves?
Speaker 1:Because if he hasn't got a car, he's obviously not. Oh right, so he didn't.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I didn't understand. He didn't have a car. Oh, okay, right.
Speaker 1:He's just basically standing there as an individual and basically all over the ground. So, yeah, but they're supposed to do that and it's supposed to be a fairly quick process, like it doesn't take you long to look, look, look and away you go, right. But yeah, that is frustrating. I get that. Why is it frustrating? I love my peeve anyway. I've got three today.
Speaker 2:Good, catch up with me, and they're all about waiting.
Speaker 1:Right Now, my first one is waiting on hold for long periods of time. Right, it does my head in. Right, if, as a company, you're willing to, you want to take my money Clients, yeah, yeah, right. So let's just say, for example, red Energy cunts at the moment.
Speaker 2:I'm not a fan of them. No, I mean, I've had the same issue as well. I'm with them as well. They were phenomenal.
Speaker 1:They were phenomenal Back in the time, yeah, back a few years ago. Right, I recommended them from people to go over them. They're the cheapest, they're a great customer service. Because they're from the Australian base as well Australian based. I supported that, so I thought this is great, this is fantastic right. However, of late I don't want to say the last year maybe, well, I'd say six months, yeah, last six months a year, right.
Speaker 1:Every time I'd ring up. Now it seems to be the hold time is getting longer and longer and longer, right? Unless, of course, you're ringing up to join. Then, all of a sudden, you seem to take only like literally five minutes. Yep, right on hold, right. But if you're ringing up for anything else, whether it be to complain about it or to do, anything else, situation it literally was the other. Last week it was 55 minutes on hold when they get through to you spoke to somebody and then they said oh, just be a couple of minutes.
Speaker 1:Is it okay to put you on hold for a couple of minutes? While I just assess this and I'm thinking well, you've already had me on hold for 55 fucking minutes, so why not a couple of minutes more? I think I ended up being on the phone to them last week for an hour and 15 minutes out of my day.
Speaker 2:I mean, I had the same situation. I did it and in the end I did it and in the end I gave up. So I would have waited like three attempts at like half an hour waiting and I remember one time they said, oh, congratulations, you're now the next person, you are next in queue. And I still waited an hour and a half and I was like what the fuck get more people? Well, it's not just that be more respected if they can see you got a log call phone, that fucking person back yeah, get more people have the option says call back, have a call back, you've called them and they put you on hold, so why can't they just phone you back?
Speaker 2:they can see you dropped out for a reason. Yeah, it's just you know standard courtesy thing.
Speaker 1:It's it, it's, it's shit, but yeah, but that's my, my I get it.
Speaker 2:I mean, I get it. You know what am I?
Speaker 1:waiting once.
Speaker 2:I've got a waiting one as well, which is probably the same as yours, as well, and that was yesterday. Are we throwing the same one? We are Okay. Well, you say it then.
Speaker 1:So waiting for and, okay, I don't know what they're called anymore, they might just be. They're supposed to be called fast food restaurants, alright, so let's take the big golden arches, which is where we were. That's where we were. We decided after church we wanted a coffee, all right, and we went in there for a coffee and we thought, well, we might as well get something quick to eat right now. I literally got here's my order. We didn't give a drive-thru, we went in, went in right, ordered on the app right, and this is also one of the things that pisses me off right, and I'm a fan of self-service. All those things right, because they make our society a bit quicker. They also make it easier for me. If I go to Hungry Jack's, for example, I'll order a bacon deluxe no tomato, no lettuce, right, done, right. I don't have to sit there and ask some 12-year-old to say no tomato, no lettuce. When it comes over, it has tomato and lettuce on it, definitely, every single fucking time. It has tomato and lettuce on it, definitely every single fucking time. Yep, if I order on the app every single time, I get no tomato, no lettuce, right, it's great, right. So I don't have to communicate with somebody that either doesn't speak English, because they're and that's not a bad thing, it's providing unemployment, right. But if I've ordered six pack of nuggets, a chocolate sundae and a coffee right, and I'm standing at the counter and you call my number out and my coffee comes across, which is fine, right. And I stand there and I have a sip and I'm thinking why is the coffee harder to make, easier to make than the nuggets that are constantly being made, or sundae that literally takes three seconds in an ice cream machine? But I'm thinking, okay, that's fine. Fine, so I've got my coffee and I'm standing there and I swear to god, it was like 11 minutes because I looked at when I actually placed the order right.
Speaker 1:And then some kid walks up to the counter and I said to him is this order coming up? Right? And he's looked, he says, oh, let's check. Then he walked away and he comes back over and he puts his bag onto the counter and I said are they my nuggets? Right? It was the same kid. Didn't even look at me, didn't even acknowledge, right. Then he walked away to the and I wasn't going to grab them just in case they weren't mine, right, whether it was another order, right, he walked over to the and I wasn't going to grab them just in case they weren't mine, right, whether it was another order. Right, he walked over to the Sunday machine and he's standing over there fiddling around with the Sunday machine and I'm sitting there going come on, bro, like it's not that hard, you pull the fucking handle.
Speaker 1:Next minute. Another kid goes over there, right, and he pulls the handle down, does all this kind of stuff. Then this kid my kid right originally squeezes the bag of chocolate sauce onto the thing and he walks back over to me and I said, mate, is this order ready? He went, oh, and then he's walked back over to the Sunday machine again, pulled the handle, done the chocolate sauce, come straight back over. It was literally a minute, right. And then he's handed me the chocolate sauce and my nugget bag, which was the nugget bag that he'd put down there right. Now, that was seven minutes, right from that point, from the part where he put the nuggets down, right, because by that stage I'm sitting there revving. I'm thinking like, come on, this is not that fucking hard, right? So literally, you'd put the nuggets down, come back, gave me my chocolate sauce.
Speaker 1:I picked the nuggets up. I said, mate, they've been there nearly 10 minutes now. Yep, all right. And he just looked at me you have to say what's your fucking problem, because I I'm only a customer, so I've no right anyway. So I've gone back to table, gone to eat them, and they were stone cold, they weren't even warm, right. So I went back up and I said to him politely and I'm not a complainer in a restaurant, in any food, I don't bitch and moan. I know it sounds like I do because we do pet peeves non-stop but I said to him mate, they're stone cold, so do you want them replaced? I said, well, yeah, that'd be ideal, right. So next minute he comes out and he gives me a 10 pack instead that are just freshly hot no, freaking steaming hot. No, delicious right, um. But literally it was like close to 30 minutes for a six pack of nuggets, right, a coffee, um, and a sundae. Like 30 minutes you were lucky took longer.
Speaker 2:That was the next order after yours.
Speaker 1:It was the next order after mine.
Speaker 2:And I just stood there. And my order number, I think you were number 118, right yeah, and I was 119.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we were talking. So Dave was sitting there waiting for his number to be called out.
Speaker 2:And I had ordered a coffee and just some fries and a burger, right, yep? And you and Clay both sat down eating yours and I thought, okay, I'll get up and check mine because there was a lot of people waiting.
Speaker 1:So I said to you you better get up and check.
Speaker 2:Well, I did. The whole counter was full of fucking drinks. I kid you not, there must have been about fucking 30 drinks soft drinks on there right. And they body right. Yeah, and I just stood there and the manager was fucking. He was in.
Speaker 1:He was not in control. No idea, yeah, fucking no idea. What the fuck? Yeah, the, the average age of his workforce would have been about 15.
Speaker 2:Uh, if that, yeah, well, as I'm saying, average age 15, yeah, right, the rest of them were all younger, and I'm not joking, I mean younger. Yeah, there was like 12 year olds there, I guarantee you right, and they have no clue on what the fuck to do. And you're standing there and you're saying I said to the manager is my order ready? Because he'd call like 127 or something like that, and I was like what the fuck? And all these other people coming in and going where's my order? And he goes have you got your coffee? He said no, I haven't got my coffee. He wouldn't have made my coffee fair enough.
Speaker 2:Came back and it was ca cappuccino, as usual, never fucking flat white, as I always so I wasn't even going to go down that path as usual, as my fucking your normal right, your normal mac is exactly what happens, yep, anyway.
Speaker 2:So then he came and he said you've got your food? I said no, and he went away and he came back and he didn't have anything with him and I said, well, what's going on? He goes, have you got your food? I said no, I thought you're getting my food, basically, and he went eventually. I, eventually I got my food, yep, and I came back, but it was just absolutely chaos. And while I was waiting, the fucking guy on the fries machine, as I said to you, he dropped all the fucking packets that you put all the fries in on the floor and then picked them up and then put the fucking fries in them.
Speaker 2:Totally food safe. It was filthy in there, it was absolutely.
Speaker 1:So Ryd was filthy in there, it was absolutely so. Ridal, mere fucking mcdonald's zero. On notice, mate, you're on that fucking atrocious gross, absolutely atrocious. It's up there with emmerton mackers yeah, fucking shitting.
Speaker 2:It's really shit really that's my gripe and you're glad too.
Speaker 1:That was a dual cry, that one. So what's your next one, um?
Speaker 2:did you have another one? You have you, you do yours. I'm trying to read by writing.
Speaker 1:That's not normal I know, right, I can't read if I read mine, so mine also. It's another fast food one or slash, not so fucking fast food one, and that's when I get to the window. If and if I'm ever going to order anything like we just discussed, I'll order on the app ahead so I can get my order correct, right, so I've already saved you some time. I usually get to the first window. There's way beyond right, so I've already saved you some time. I usually get to the first window. They just wait me on, right, so I get there and they'll hand me out a drink and they go. Can you move around to the waiting bay? All right, and I'm thinking I've already saved you so much fucking time, so much effort. You can almost cut out a person of your team, right, and you want me to move around for the waiting bay?
Speaker 1:Now, to give our listeners some context a gastric sleeve surgery about five years ago now. So my order is always minimal. I'm not ordering four hundred dollars worth of maccas or four hundred dollars worth of hungry jacks or kfc I'll be lucky to order. If it's kfc, it'll be lucky to order a couple of tenders or something like that. You always have like six nuggets, and you're six nuggets, and that's Six nuggets, and that's it Well you don't even get through them half the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't ever get through them right, but that's why I only order minimum, so I'm not asking for anything special off the menu or any like can you?
Speaker 1:please make sure this is done. It should just be simple shit that's there. Don't send me to the fucking waiting bay and then leave me sitting in the waiting bay for 15-20 minutes, just so I. I got the, I was in a mood and I went no, no, I can't.
Speaker 1:And this 12 year old has given me a tart. She said, well, I need you to move. And I said, well, I'm not moving. I says so, you can need just to get my order ready instead, right, and the manager's come up and says, oh, what's the issue? I said no issue. I said I'm just waiting for my order. Oh, can you move to the waiting bay? I said no. I said my order isn't that hard. It was like a bacon egg muffin or something like that. And this was ages ago, right, and I went she's giving me a tut, right, and I, she's given me a tut. And I went that's cool. I said that's fine and she's like, handed it out the window with all the attitude in the world and I'm thinking to myself, yeah, yeah. But I thought there's no need even ringing to complain, because she was the 12 year old manager and I'm sitting there going like you know what, get your shit together. If you're going to offer fast food, make it fast if they had to line up in a checkout.
Speaker 2:Give them proper training so they fucking know what they're doing.
Speaker 1:But if these people had to line up in a checkout for too long. They sit there and they bitch and they. I've been here for 20 minutes. I've been here doing this and you sit there and go fuck off, you idiots. But yeah, so, anyway, that's my pet pee.
Speaker 2:And it relates to that TV show we watched last night. Remember that show on Channel 10?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's stupid. Yeah, so it's replaced the project.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it's called. It's called 10 News.
Speaker 1:Well, honest to fucking God, right.
Speaker 2:This is how it went. It was like a three-second or three-minute fucking talk segment and they go to a commercial break.
Speaker 1:Which lasted for four minutes.
Speaker 2:Which lasted four minutes, back to a commercial break. Come back three minutes commercial break. It was every single fucking segment.
Speaker 1:Every segment had a commercial break.
Speaker 2:The commercial breaks were fucking longer than the fucking segments.
Speaker 1:It was shit. And it was boring, I went fuck Channel 10, what the fuck are you doing? And we had to sit there and watch it because we were waiting for Survivor, which is amazing, and there was less ads in Survivor, which I expected. After watching that, I thought, oh, we're going to get smashed with ads now in Survivor. I thought we were going to, but we didn't, so it was quite good.
Speaker 2:So that is a pet peeve. I know it's paid for TV and I get that. I expect to have ads and sometimes ads can be fun.
Speaker 1:Sometimes they can be really fun especially the Telstra one video of him doing this Elstra walk, which was quite fun. It is quite funny, quite fun. It was great.
Speaker 2:I'm all for ads. I don't mind ads, but fuck, come on. If you're going to have a segment, at least make it 15 minutes, at least 15 minutes.
Speaker 1:Or at least 7 or 8.
Speaker 2:And then bloody go on as well, and this is a news program. So how the fuck can you cover one little segment and then go back into more commercial?
Speaker 1:Correct, correct. Anyway, that's my pet peeve, that's our pet peeves and that's us for today. So we've had fun, tired, tired. Definitely Been a big week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but we'll talk with you soon and if you have got any more information or you want to have a chat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're a sex worker and you want to come on and have a chat, or if you want to have a chat anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I know there is a person that's been wanting to chat with us and we're going to get you on. We'll probably reach out to you this week and see if you can do, maybe next weekend sometime. You know who you are. We're not going to say your name because I know we discussed what your name was going to be, but I can't remember what it was now, anyway, anyway, but anyone that wants to come on the show of our socials mainly our Instagram, fullygrownhomospodcast, or you can contact us on our Gmail. But, yeah, we'd love to have you on, so I've been.
Speaker 1:Matt and I'm Dave, as usual, and we'll see you later. Bye, that's a wrap from us. We've been your Fully Grown Homos and we look forward to opening your mind, your ears and your curiosities. Don't forget to like, comment and subscribe, and share our podcast with your curious friends. You can contact us on fullygrownhomospodcast at gmailcom or any of our socials. Fullygrownhomospodcast. Thank you.
