Fully Grown Homos Podcast
Fully Grown Homos Podcast
Coming Out: Stories, Struggles, and Liberation
Dave and Matt take you through the transformative journey of coming out in this deeply personal episode that balances heartfelt vulnerability with practical insights.
Dave reveals his experience of coming out at 42 after a military career, marriage, and fatherhood. "Every day since that point onwards I've been the true, authentic me," he shares, detailing how family reactions surprised him in the best possible ways. Meanwhile, Matt discusses coming out in his early twenties despite knowing he was different from childhood, and the complex feelings of regret that his supportive mother "always knew."
The hosts unpack fascinating statistics showing how coming out ages are shifting dramatically across generations - from 19-20 for millennials to 11-14 for today's youth. They explore why one in three LGBTQ+ adults never come out to their parents at all, examining the fears and societal pressures that keep people in the closet.
What makes this conversation especially valuable is their nuanced take on why authenticity matters not just for yourself, but for everyone in your life. "The pressure of staying hidden is far harder," they emphasize, while acknowledging that timing and circumstances remain deeply personal.
Whether you're contemplating coming out, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about LGBTQ+ experiences, this episode offers both emotional resonance and practical resources. Reach out to us through our socials or email if you need support - we promise a judgment-free conversation.
If you want to send us a question or would like our thoughts on a particular topic you can contact us at Fullygrownhomospodcast@gmail.com or contact us on any of our socials at Fully Grown Homos Podcast.
Welcome to Fully Grown Homos, a podcast about our adventures as fully grown homos navigating today's world full of inquisitive friends, questions about gay life and the unexplored activities of a life lived as fully grown homos.
Speaker 2:We'll discuss the gay 101s, sex sexuality and topics we don't even know yet, as we want your input into what you want to hear. Nothing is off limits, so email us on the Fully Grown Homos podcast at gmailcom or message any of our socials Fully Grown Homos.
Speaker 1:With Dave and Matt On today's episode we're going to talk all about coming out. It's going to be a whole episode on coming out. Lots different coming out stories, lots of different coming out facts. But before we jump into that, dave, I want to just touch on something that I've seen in the media. It's a little bit perturbed to me. It's irked me a bit.
Speaker 2:Now as an artist, he's pulling funny faces here, so I'm waiting for the answer.
Speaker 1:As an artist I'm an absolute fan. I went and seen this person. I don't know what I'm allowed to call them anymore. I'm allowed to see this person that I'd seen I'm assuming they're still identifying as a human in concert and they were fucking spectacular a long time ago as a human in concert, and they were fucking spectacular a long time ago. Sam Smith has recently come out as now wants to be identified as an oyster, any particular type of oyster, hopefully one that gets fucking put back into his shell. I don't know. What do you like? Like, okay, now, I know traditionally, because we've had many, many conversations, that you don't fully understand people that identify as non-binary, which is fine. Well, it's not that I, no, no, it's not. It's. It's actually okay to not understand it because you are so very much respectful. If somebody, somebody, says they're non-binary, you ask them what their pronouns are. You ask them. You're very respectful of what they wish to be identified and how they wish to be identified, so that's fine. However, an oyster. What are your thoughts, dave?
Speaker 2:Could it be anything else? Could be anything. Why did he choose to be an oyster? Does it say why he chose an oyster? It doesn't say why. What was he identifying prior to?
Speaker 1:this he was identifying as non-binary. His pronouns were they them Right, okay, which is fine, I get that.
Speaker 2:So run me through the whole process with non-binary Yep. You're still identifying as a human as such.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, yes, so you're still identifying as a human, so what does it classify as if you're not a human anymore? Well, this is what I'm struggling and listeners anyone that's out there that can help me work this out please feel free to hit us up on our socials.
Speaker 2:Is there anything on Google that tells you? No, I've tried, okay.
Speaker 1:I've tried. So I understand the binary and people do identify as non-binary and we've gone through it a number of times. Not on Mike, generally, because again, I think you need to be an expert before you try and pass yourself off as an expert. Is this a? If you identify as female, right, regardless of what your assigned gender is, as female right, regardless of what your assigned gender is right and you've told me or I've asked, I will give you the respect that you deserve and I will identify you in using feminine identifiers such as she, her. If you have told me or I've asked and you've told me you identify as a male, I will give you male identifiers such as he, him. If you tell me that you're non-binary and your preferred pronouns or identifiers are they, them, I will do that exactly and give you the respect that you deserve.
Speaker 1:Where I just don't get and look, we've got friends that say that, have said they just don't want their child coming back and telling them they're a cat, which again I just think is silly, right, and that's just people pulling the piss and being Is this legally allowed to be? Well, this is the other thing. I don't know. How could I just don't get an oyster.
Speaker 1:Like what Is it in?
Speaker 2:our publicity stunt. It's not, definitely it's not going back to April Fool's Day.
Speaker 1:No, it's not. It's literally two days ago, or?
Speaker 2:yesterday it should have been April Fool's Day, because it sounds like a fucking foolish thing to do.
Speaker 1:It's stupid and what it does is anyone.
Speaker 2:It ridicules that person?
Speaker 1:Well, anyone that is not un-binary, who identifies as non-binary, and that the big redneck fuckwit morons out there that don't wish to give those people respect. It just doesn't lend them any help as such, because people then sit there and they go well, look at sam smith he's identifying as a looser now and they go well, he's taking the piss. Therefore, they assume that everyone that's not identifying on the binary are taking the piss as well. So I just think it undermines it. So how?
Speaker 2:far do these people go in terms of changing their identity? Do they have to change their name per se? Do they change all their documentation, such as their passport? How the fuck is he going to be on his passport? Is he going to identify as a fucking oyster? This is what I don't get. What's his fucking passport photogram going to be like A fucking pearl necklace or something like that.
Speaker 1:Well, he does like to wear pearls. We know that, or they like to wear pearls.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. This is ridiculous, okay, and this is where I'm struggling as well.
Speaker 1:Well, because I don't know now what to call them. Because when he was, when sam was identifying as a male and I would call him him, right when he chose to come out as non-binary. I'm quite okay with calling somebody they, them, that doesn't faze me at all, like that's, that's called respect, right. But now they've come out as an oyster. What are your pronouns? As an oyster? Like shuck, shucked, shell, pearl, pearl. I don't, I just don't. You're making it too hard for the world, right, you're making it. This is the thing. I would be calling him clown.
Speaker 2:Not clown. Clam oh, clam Sam, clam Sam clamown, clam oh, clam, sam, clam.
Speaker 1:Sam Clam, there you go. Sam the Clam, there you go. That's what I'm going to call him from now on. Going forward, Sam the Clam. It just I don't know, it does my head in yeah but also I'm confused.
Speaker 2:But it also ridicules that person as well. It makes them look absolutely ridiculous in society, regardless of what they do, where they are now. I mean, he has such a good fan base of people, he has such a good reputation and I think people just look at him as a joke. Now, no, I can't even say him because I don't fucking know what he is.
Speaker 1:That's the thing we don't understand. We don't understand.
Speaker 2:That's what you initially classified him from. Yeah, yeah. That's what your visuals are oh, could you imagine someone that's claiming benefits? What the fuck are they going to do?
Speaker 1:I don't know, but anyway, all right, I don't want to get caught up on this.
Speaker 2:Oh, you brought the conversation up.
Speaker 1:I did because I'm trying to understand it Now. If any of our listeners can help me understand, look, I fully understand the binary, like I said, I get that and non-binary I get that. But if you can understand the new oyster lease or whatever the fuck Sam's identifying as now, please shoot us a message, hit us up on our socials grown homos podcast. But let's get into our coming out day. So I'm not going to sing any diana or songs, but I might use that as our um, as a theme song when I release this episode. Yeah, but dave, let's hit them with some coming out facts now.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll let you go first. I've been doing a bit of research and it's quite difficult to find a lot of coming out facts as such, but I found one that basically puts research into the age demographics of people that come out, so the average age per se, as according to the polls and statistics that are online, it says the average age of someone coming out is between 19 and 20. But that refers to the millennials and people of our generation.
Speaker 1:Okay, but it's now. Now We'll fact check that with our own coming out stories a little bit later in the episode but it's now saying that.
Speaker 2:However, lots of people came out during the middle time, in middle school and high school, yep, which again is not necessarily my factual um denomination, but again I mean I do know people from previous, from my hours at school that did come out of that age. So that does correlate. So there is people in that situation, but it says hence more people in younger generations now, such as my son's generation, gen z, gen y, yep, um or post millennials you know um going forward on the one gen.
Speaker 2:Alpha beta is the new one, so we've had beta, beta yeah, so he's saying that the younger generation now are coming out as young as four, sorry between the ages of 11 and 14. Okay, and he's saying 86% choose to tell their family or close friends first. Some choose not to come out at all to certain people because of fear. And it says one in three people in the LGBT community adults themselves do not come out at all to their parents. Full stop. Okay, so that's the facts. I've got in that line of information, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, yep, and I do get that because I do know people that still to this day and they're so gay. It's not even questionable, it's obvious, it's not questionable. You meet them and you assume that they're gay, but according to their parents they're still straight and you sit there and go huh, how does that work? Your parents aren't that dumb. They've actually got eyes.
Speaker 1:And how many times have we heard people saying, especially mothers, saying that we always knew, we knew, we always do, yeah well, look when I came out, and again, we'll touch on our personal stories a little bit later, but my mum already knew, right?
Speaker 2:mine didn't, yeah well yeah yeah, it was a shock for her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely but yeah, but yeah okay so what about yourself?
Speaker 2:have you so?
Speaker 1:I've got. So I've got an interesting fact that the first person to come out was a long, long time ago on a land far away Bethlehem.
Speaker 2:No, Germany, actually Germany's got quite a correlation to the last.
Speaker 1:Yeah, lots of things, and we have listeners in Germany. So, hey there, germany, love having you on board. Thank you very much for listening. But we've got and I'm going to say this wrong because I do not speak German but it's Karl Heinrich Ulrich who's considered many of the first gay activists of modern times, and he came out well, he was born in 1825, but he wrote lots of different essays throughout his times and stuff like that as well. In between 1863 and 1865 he wrote five essays on gay love. He I think in 1820, 18 with his published published. Oh, wow, okay, all right, um, and that's what we're talking about 1800. So that's pretty full on Yep, the Riddle of a Male, male Love he wrote. So he's actually written lots and lots and lots of gay dissertations and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:There's a whole massive article on him and it's really quite an interesting read. I'm not going to sit here and read it because I think that part's boring. If you're listening to me, but he was born in August. Of course he was Leo the King, but as a young child he actually wore women's clothes.
Speaker 2:I don't think that was uncommon back then, because clothes were unisex anyway, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he preferred to be making friends with girls and even expressed a desire to be a girl, so he was possibly even trans, which way back before we even knew what trans was.
Speaker 2:Obviously, but wasn't he totally illegal?
Speaker 1:It wasn't, yeah, although gay acts weren't illegal in Hanover yet, so it wasn't illegal yet. So, it had become legal later on, right, but he still got fired from his job as a civil servant. Okay, so yeah, but he um wrote essays on gay love. He's written lots and lots of stuff um, but yeah, he um passed in 1895 from yeah it doesn't say what I'd say.
Speaker 1:Did he pass as a girl or a boy? No, as as in, passed away, died, dropped dead, yeah, but yeah. So he did lots of really good work at coming out, and it doesn't say exactly when he came out, but he ended up living the last 15 years of his life in Italy as well, so it was a little bit more, I guess, relaxed and a bit chilled and stuff like that basically europe at that point was very accepting of everybody, I suppose well yeah, we've gone like full circle, haven't we?
Speaker 1:we've gone. Germany traditionally has been quite um quite liberal if we're talking, if you talk back when I was until back when I was younger. I was thinking about porn and stuff like that, all the weird stuff and all the kinky stuff. When I say weird, it's not weird anymore, it's just fisting. Don't make me choke, sorry. Yeah, that sort of stuff was all from Germany.
Speaker 2:Anything that you thought was naughty, really naughty, was all from Germany, but RTL on the television, because that was the best site to find all those things, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, do you remember RTL? I don't, that's German. Was it German porn?
Speaker 2:No, a German TV show that had lots of nudity on it. Oh, did it. Yeah before it became mainstream.
Speaker 1:There you go, there you go, but yeah, so go, so yeah, but um, but yeah. So look, um, carl, um, thank you for coming out and for um helping the world to come out as well?
Speaker 2:do you know what the definition of coming out is, matt?
Speaker 1:oh, the process where an lgbt person shares their sexual orientation and or gender identity with themselves and others. Coming out is not a requirement of being LGBTQ plus in any way. It is a deeply personal experience. For those that do come out, most find not to be a singular one-time experience, but rather a series of coming out through life and that is facts. There you go. You come out often and often, and over and over and over again.
Speaker 2:Have you got some other kind yeah. So I've just got some reference to the National Coming Out Day, yeah, which was established in 1988 in America.
Speaker 1:So that's a long time ago as well, yeah exactly which again?
Speaker 2:I mean we've gone from being in the 80s, when AIDS and HIV was such a prominent thing, yeah, and gay people were bashed, and still do get bashed, unfortunately yeah, but not as much, still hate crimes, yep, yep, um, but you're talking the 80s and that was like synonymous with homosexuality and, um, what you call it, um, homophobia, homophobia, yeah, and, and you know the whole aspect of being locked away and criminalised and everything else. So that surprises me that it was back in 1988. But it was established in 1988 as a way to encourage individuals to come out and to be involved in society. It's a day of celebration, a form of activism, and it's now observed on 11th of october each year, and it's exactly one day after the second national march in washington of the lgbtq rights okay so there you go.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so for me, leading on to that, I said you know he follows on and says it's coming out important, and why do we have to come out?
Speaker 1:So there's some of our questions.
Speaker 2:Before we jump into those.
Speaker 1:If you go onto the Trevor Project website, which is thetrevorprojectorg, which is a great website, but there's actually a coming out handbook for young people as well. Now, you don't have to be young. As we discussed, we went through and did we target off that there is different demographics that come out of different stages of their life as well. So, um, and I think, yeah, there's all different times now you can come out at any time, but I think what we'll do is we'll jump into our stories now, yeah, and we'll, we'll go through that, um, so yeah, but because that leads on for mine anyways, for the thing anyway, yeah so is coming out important.
Speaker 1:All right, dave, what do you think?
Speaker 2:um, I think it's important to the individual, depending on what circumstances, depending on what environment, depending on what pressures or responsibilities you have going forward. So, for me, coming out to me was important, in a way of being able to be myself. Yep, I don't think it's important that I have to come out to anybody, or I don't feel that I should have had to come out, but for me, coming out has led me to be the person I am today. It's allowed me to be free and I do feel free and I don't hold anything against myself anymore. I mean, it was scary.
Speaker 1:So you came out later in life. Absolutely so I've got this question down the list, but it's probably a good time to ask that now.
Speaker 2:When did you come out? Give me an age? So I came out. I'm just trying to think that way there. So I came out around about 42, 42, 43 so not that long ago.
Speaker 1:So we're looking. You're now 55, so 54, 55 this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 54 54 yeah, so say say between I know so 12 years ago, well, maybe, yeah. So say between I don't know so 12 years ago, well, maybe a bit longer, maybe I was like 41, maybe I don't know. So between you know.
Speaker 1:So you would be considered somebody that's come out late in life.
Speaker 2:Yes, I did.
Speaker 1:Late in life.
Speaker 2:Look, I always knew. But, like I said, coming out for me was the liberation fact for me to be myself. Yeah, the process involved was very up and down it was dark.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and again you've told some of your stories.
Speaker 2:You're going a bit deeper yeah, but in the terms of the question coming out is important. I think it's important to the individual at that time and that place and that reason, if that makes makes sense. Yeah, it's a personal journey.
Speaker 1:It definitely is.
Speaker 2:And what about yourself?
Speaker 1:So for me, yeah, it's coming out important. Was it important? Definitely, I think it's extremely important to me. It was extremely important to me and is extremely important to me because it allowed me to be who I was. Finally. So I and, as most and I don't want to speak for everyone because I can't speak for everyone, but as most lgbtq people, um, um will know that when you're hiding something, um, you're hiding not just that one thing. I wasn't just hiding being gay. I was hiding lots of things that I thought people would potentially pick up on, but you're hiding your personality, correct? I was hiding behind a wall of so many things that I was worried that if I showed one of those things, somebody would point it towards that it's almost like holding a mask up in front of your face for 25 days.
Speaker 2:Oh, I definitely wore a mask. You know? What I'm saying is it's hard work, it's fucking exhausting. Because, when you are the person you are, and all you ever want to be is the person you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and yet I love living authentically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I. I love living authentically. Absolutely, I do too, and I think nobody should have to do that anyway. No, but unfortunately the way we live our lives. And going back to society, and I know it's 2025.
Speaker 1:And I came out when I was 21, 22.
Speaker 2:Yes, so 20 years before me.
Speaker 1:Yep, quite a while ago now, but that was still fairly late, considering I'd known, since I was well, I'd known there was something different about me from a very young age. Well, look at the people.
Speaker 2:I would say in the previous conversation the average age was 19, 20. Now it's going to 11 to 14. So again I mean you would be classified as coming out late in life Now you were probably the right age, the average age, back then. But again I mean you can't explain to people what it feels like to have to go through that process. I mean you get it, I get it. Anybody that's gone through that process gets it. They do.
Speaker 1:It does give you, like I said, it gives you that freedom right. It gives you integrity. All right, look, if I can be honest, because I say like we were actually having. We were playing some board games with some friends and somebody said, oh what's? I think one of the dares was or one of the truths, one of the truths, yeah was how do people know when you're lying?
Speaker 1:right Now I don't have a tell because I don't lie, because I've quite. My integrity is quite important to me, right? So therefore I just say it how it is Now. The only time I will generally lie is when I'm trying to not hurt somebody, right as such.
Speaker 2:So if somebody is but that's a new white lie as well, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's a truth withheld rather than a lie. So me being able to come out and be my true self has allowed me to be true with everyone in my life, fundamentally, yeah because you do live a lot.
Speaker 2:You are living a lie. All the time you're in the closet, you are yeah, so it's, and it's just painful.
Speaker 1:It was painful for me, so I think it's really important to come out and live your true, authentic self. Yeah, now, exactly, it's not for everyone, all right, I get that. There are people out there that, for some reason, think that they can't come out. Trust me, the pressure of staying hidden is far harder.
Speaker 2:It's far harder it is right, it is definitely people that will love you, right?
Speaker 1:or do you think won't love you because you've come out? They may not stick around in your life.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, as part of this community.
Speaker 1:I've been privy to so many questions that, after people have come out, that other people have left them, whether they be family, friends, so on and so forth, but are they really there for you anyway? And this should be turned up for your whole authentic self.
Speaker 2:Why I say coming out is important is up to the individual at the right time in the right place and thing. But in retrospect I think to enjoy your life and to be free as a person, then definitely is important to come out. So why do you think we have to come out, dave? Why?
Speaker 1:because self-sanity yep, for one, but okay, so we're living in 2025 now, all right, why is that?
Speaker 2:even a thing I know, and I think it is changing it is. Why do we?
Speaker 1:even give a fuck about what people are doing in their bedrooms. Well, this is.
Speaker 2:This is why the new generation coming through you. You know the Gen Y, the Gen Zs, and moving forward are now precedenting that common trait now, they don't care, they generally don't care, they don't judge anybody and I think, to be honest with you, they've got it right.
Speaker 1:It's a pretty good time. It is a very good time. It can be a pretty good time and it's very good because they pretty good time it is.
Speaker 2:It can be a pretty good time and it's very good because they all are in the same page. They are. There's no negativity, there's no sort of like judgment.
Speaker 1:There's no, there's no, it's usually meant if somebody decides they're going to come out, even if they come out, because again the younger generation, your, your millennials, your betas and alphas and all that kind of stuff, they're not even coming out. They're just like, yeah, I'm hooking up with this person now I'm hooking up so I'm saying they're so gender fluid and they're not even actually putting a label on it. So I think.
Speaker 2:I think it's a pretty good time there, so but, but I think but it's also influencing the people of our age and the generations before them to really sort of like open up and say do you know what To think?
Speaker 1:a bit differently.
Speaker 2:Do you know what? If they're not bothered, why are we bothered? Why do we even have names? Why do we have labels? Why do we have fucking anything?
Speaker 1:in life, god, we all. Yeah, we have to have labels. No, we don't.
Speaker 2:But yeah, anyway, that's a different different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, maybe I'm trying to get me started again. I don't want to be an oyster, I want to be a man I wonder what oyster makes not salad makes sweet.
Speaker 2:I have to grill it um anyway yeah, um, so all right.
Speaker 1:So what is your coming out story?
Speaker 2:dave. So for me mine is quite long and um challenging, I suppose um coming from a military background, growing up as a kid and coming from you know being born in the 70s um raised all the way through in the 80s, going through the whole, the gay issues and the societal um, you know negativity towards people being gay put the fear of fucking life into me.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like it did for most people.
Speaker 1:It was scary.
Speaker 2:Like my dad came from.
Speaker 1:It wasn't normal, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:My dad came from a generation before us, and his parents, my grandparents, came from a generation before him and they were very, very racist. They were very homophobic to a way, but not in a nasty way. They just said things that they were so used to. It was just conversation. They were never nasty people.
Speaker 1:They never meant it.
Speaker 2:But when you hear people talking things like people calling faggots and poofters and stuff like that, it does.
Speaker 1:It was never, ever mentioned in a positive light.
Speaker 2:No, but you don't know. I mean, my dad knew a friend that you know, he called him a poof to himself for that, and you know, and my dad being military as well, which was completely homophobic all the way through even my military career as well um, you know, it does put the fear of life into and it makes you question. You know, do I want to go down this path? You know, am I really going to be accepted in society? Yeah, so little do you know? There's really no option.
Speaker 2:No, so that's where my story starts is basically being socialized from a young age to conform to societies. Yep, you know, believing you were wrong. Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's right. So I kept myself closeted inside and to some degree it was fine. You know, I didn't play on it, it didn't worry me, I didn't act on it.
Speaker 2:For me, going into the military myself was something that I chose to do, something that I am glad I did, yeah, yep. So, look, there's positives and negatives to everything, and I'm always believing that all the way through life, and so should everybody else. But look, I mean, I wanted kids from a young age as well. So for me, I know, back when it was all illegal, and you know everything else, I was never going to be able to have a kid with another guy. Yep, so illegal.
Speaker 2:And you know everything else, I was never gonna be able to have a kid with another guy. Yeah, so for me you know that wasn't gonna happen anyway. So, um, I just told the line and, to be honest, I put it in the back of my head. I didn't really sort of play acting, I didn't act on it. I mean, there might have been urges when I saw a good looking guy and I thought, oh fuck, he's hot, or you know, I might go back and I might fucking wank over a fucking, you know, work colleague or something, not literally, but wish I was.
Speaker 2:You know, in my mind. You know what I mean fantasizing and stuff like that. You know it would always be. Maybe you know about guys. Men in your fantasies, yep, but then I did sorry, I did find, sorry, a pubic hair in your mouth. Yeah, I did find women attractive and I still do find women attractive.
Speaker 1:It's not that.
Speaker 2:I'm bisexual. It's not that I'm straight, I'm definitely gay. Oh, you are. I definitely still like women. I still find women attractive and for me, marrying my ex-wife, it wasn't something I did because I had to. It's something I chose to to do. I did fall in love with her, yep, and I do so she's awesome and I still do care about her.
Speaker 2:She's the mother of my child, um, and I'm grateful for her, for allowing us to have him. You know, I mean um. So for me, you know, going through the whole process was what I needed to do, yep, but when my marriage broke down, for reasons that aren't necessary to explain, um, you know, my choices became more available to me. I was not in the military anymore and, bear in mind, once I had my son, they changed the law anyway. So, basically, literally about two years, um, when he was born, they chose that. You know, homosexuality was then elite, it was legalized. So therefore, by that time, I was already married, I was already a father yeah, so you're not going to go.
Speaker 2:Oh well, I'll cast all this aside but I was happy for people in the military because it just showed you know that they could still do their job. They were able.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly this is what it was what makes me laugh so much.
Speaker 2:Right, and also statistics will always also say you know, this is what gets me. Statistics say that one in seven is meant to be gay. Blah blah blah and you got 96,000 people.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say how many military just in?
Speaker 2:just in, just in the, just in the air force, I was at the time, 96,000 people, right, yeah, and you're telling me there's not a single one person that is gay. That, to me, always made me laugh, yeah, and you know, as soon as they dropped the legal, the curtain, yeah, the curtain loads of people came out. It was liberating for them, it was, yeah, but for me, I still chose. You know, things were happy, I was, I was in a happy place, we emigrated over here and then, obviously, a couple years later, I had my injury, depression, everything else got to me, and then my marriage broke down, everything else.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, once I understood and realized that the marriage was over, um, but working through the friendship was still there, um, I was able then to sort of like focus and think, okay, what will it be like to go and meet up with guys, Yep, you know. And this, this is where my, that's where your journey began, my journey began. So for me it was scary, yep, but on the other side, it was something that it was. It was terrifying, but it was also exciting as well, and I can't tell you a specific, a specific, should I say, a time when I felt liberated. It wasn't straight away, it was still like testing the waters. Testing the waters, testing the waters, feeling a little bit, you know. Oh shit, am I doing the right thing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing the right thing, but over time, because you're over time you got to the point where, probably about three years after my decision to meet up with guys, yep, I met up with a guy. Um, I started dating him, introduced him to. I started dating him, introduced him to both. My ex-wife and my son Adam didn't know at the time he was a boyfriend, he just thought he was a friend and his interpretation was yeah, I understand, he's a boy and he's your friend. You want to explain to him? Well, he was quite young at the time. Yeah, yeah, exactly right, he was, and you know. But through the process of events, I couldn't stay with him because it wasn't fair to me to be with someone that was already in.
Speaker 1:So had you physically told Debbie that you were gay by that stage?
Speaker 2:No, I think she sort of like, she sort of like kind of yeah, she kind of knew I think yeah, definitely yeah, but I hadn't really said you know.
Speaker 1:I'm gay, the words yeah, I hadn't sat down and said that I'm gay, so when did you tell your parents that?
Speaker 2:So this is it. So my parents were probably the last ones I told from my family. Yeah. So Debbie and Adam knew first. Yeah, and yeah. So debbie and adam knew first, yeah. And then I told my sister and my niece, yep. Now I remember specifically the day I I'd already told debbie and adam. So about a month or so later I decided okay, I need to tell my sister and I'm very close to my sister um and my.
Speaker 2:I went out with my sister and my niece somewhere I can't remember, and my sister had gone off somewhere for about 10 minutes and I sat down and I just said to my niece, you know, I said I've got something to tell you. I was pretty nervous, you know what I mean. And I remember saying to her look, I said you know, I'm gay. And it was the best experience of my life because she turned around and said oh, and she looked at me and she came over and gave me a hug, bear in mind.
Speaker 1:She was only in her 20s and she said oh, that's cool, I always wanted the gay uncle.
Speaker 2:Oh, which is great that's exactly the direction, yeah, and I think that that definitely helped. So we got in the car, we drove somewhere to the next donation I can't remember it was, I think it was in winter somewhere and we got out the car and I I said to my sister look, I've got something to tell you. And she goes why, what's the matter? What's the matter? And obviously everybody automatically thought everything was wrong with my back because of my injury.
Speaker 2:Everybody sort of focused on my injury as a problem and I said she goes, what's the matter? And I said look, I've just got to tell you that I'm gay. She said okay, um, and my niece looked at her and smiled and said yeah, it's cool, isn't it? And she said yeah. She said well, well, you know. She said you're still my brother, I still love you. And then, it's strange, it just they've been adam, though that was a straight thing. And again, I mean that was the case of like, do they know? You know? I mean, and I get it. And I said yeah, I told them. And she goes does mom know mom and dad? And I said no, I haven't told them. I said I've told them. And she goes does mum know mum and dad? And I said no, I haven't told them. I said I've told them that you first, I'll phone them and tell them tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Bear in mind, my parents lived in the uk. Yep, so for me it was very difficult for me to have that one-on-one conversation which a lot of people do. Yep, so for me it was a case of skyping them, and I was skyping them regularly, every week anyway, and I remember having this long conversation and my dad would always sit next to the uh, the camera closer and have the conversation. My mom would be in the background fiddling around, doing things, talking at the same time. And I remember coming to the end of the conversation and I said, oh, I've got something to tell you. And my mom was like, well, what's the matter? What's my what's up, what's up, what's up? You know, naturally thinking again, something was wrong with my back, something was wrong with me, and I just said, look, I'm gay and I don't know. I I just felt this whole, I don't know how to explain it to people, but I felt very heavy on my shoulders, you know. I mean, yeah, it felt like I didn't want to say it, but as soon as I said it.
Speaker 1:It was out there, it's out there, it's out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah and I was just like fuck, okay, I've said it now, you know, I mean, and I remember my dad. My dad used to have this very, very nervous sort of like smile when he was like nervous, yep, and I remember him smirking right and then he's just turned around and said that's fine. He said you know, don't worry about it, as long as you're okay. He said we still love you, we still care about you and again, it's that reassurance side of things.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean and then my mum was like, oh, I could see my mum's June in the background. I could see her just like, well, her brain was ticking, she was definitely. I mean, obviously they asked the question. I could see my mum's June in the background. I could see her just like, just like Her brain was ticking, she was definitely. I mean, obviously, the answer to the question they've been adding no. And then I said yes, and I said I told Paula, my niece and everything else as well, and they go, okay, anyway, the conversation ended.
Speaker 2:And then I remember the next morning my sister phoning me up and she goes oh, mum's been on the phone to me and I'm like, okay, here we go. And then she said, oh, she's really worried about you. And I said but why? And she goes oh, she's worried that you're going to get HIV, you're going to get bashed up and all this lot. And then she said to me she goes, how did she? And then she said why did he tell you before me? She got jealous. I, why did he tell you before me? I don't know what it is, I don't know. You can't win, you know. I mean no anyway.
Speaker 2:So I remember phoning my mum back the next day or speaking to them and I just said look, you know, you've got to understand. Society's changed. You know I've had to learn. Yes, I mean I was always worried about the hiv and getting beaten up and everything else. But when you look into the facts and you start doing research and you start understanding that things at that time had changed and we're talking like in the 2000s, you know, and things have changed even more now. Yeah, um, I just said to her like you've got to understand, you know, the chances of catching hiv and stuff are very small now.
Speaker 2:These days there are medications now I can go fishing for all other types of things, yeah, and I just said, look, you know, and yes, there are still people that do get beaten up, but it's not like it used to be, you know. I mean yeah, um, and yeah. So for me it was, it was very liberating. I mean, I didn't tell all of my family. I told my. My brother got told by my mom and dad. They said can we tell? I said, yeah, fine, you tell them. Yeah, um, but for me I didn't need to tell my aunties and uncles what I'm tapping things. I didn't need to, um, tell my aunties and uncles because, at the end of the day, I don't discuss their sexual preferences, their sexuality to them. If they found out or they know which they probably do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then that's fine. I, I don't care, I don't care, and I I got to the point where I just thought, my god, the weight is lifted off my shoulders. Yeah, do you know what? If the most important people to me and my family and they've accepted me so do you know what?
Speaker 2:if they accept me, there's a high probability that everybody else is going to accept me. If they don't, I thought, well, they're not in my life, they don't need to be in my life. So, yeah, so that was pretty much my my journey. Like I said, it was very long-winded, but for me coming out later in life was hard, yeah, but again, I think it's something that I need to do.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad I did yep, because every day since that point onwards I've been the true, authentic me yeah, you know it was hard initially to getting used to people talking about me, because there was people talking about me and when I found out but I thought well, I'm not having direct conversations, they're talking behind my back and you know. And if they're still talking to me, that's fine, you know, I mean they just they did it's always topic conversation. There's always gonna be, there's always gonna be people talking. But does it, does it matter?
Speaker 1:does? It doesn't matter, it wasn't affecting me. It wasn't affecting me, yeah, but it wasn't affecting me though no, correct, you know.
Speaker 2:So for me it's one less person I had to tell directly. So if they found it indirectly, then so be it, they don't have to worry about it. And I mean correct, um, so yeah, so for me that was pretty much my journey. But again, like I said, every day since that point I've been myself and it's just been the best way to be, yeah, yeah and obviously yours is going to be slightly different because you were younger.
Speaker 1:Well, mine is different Similar.
Speaker 1:No different. So I definitely had a different upbringing than yourself, right? So I had a single mum, basically, and sort of the dad left, sort of. There was a domestic violence issue way back when we were younger and, um, they should never have been together thank god they were, otherwise we wouldn't be here um, as kids, um, but they did the right thing by separating because one of them would have been dead, one of them would have killed the other one, and when they went on to their respective partners afterwards, like that, went to his next wife and didn't ever lay a hand. So those two just together were not the right fit, right? Um, it's had a pretty rough childhood growing up and the area wasn't amazing. Um, excuse me, the area wasn't amazing. It was a rough area where, again, like you said, that that tone and that language that was used being faggot, poof da, all of that that was never said in a positive way, never, ever, ever said in a positive way.
Speaker 1:So when I was young, I knew there was something different about me, right? So I knew from the get-go, right? Um, my grandfather used to work at carnivals and stuff like that. So he'd work at the easter show and he'd work at any of those carnivals where the you'd be like ringside and you'd have the ring toss and the clowns and all that kind of stuff. But he had this friend that was mum used to call old gay arthur, right, everyone used to say, oh, old gay Arthur's coming over, and I knew, and I didn't know, that it was gay. I didn't know what to label it Because we were talking when I was young, right, I knew that old gay Arthur, if he come over he could probably tell that there was something the same as me. So I used to distance myself tremendously from this guy. So I used to distance myself tremendously from this guy.
Speaker 2:Is that because of the you know the Like, we have that gaydar sort of thing. You're worried about that sort of thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was worried that other people would look at me and look at him and think the same thing, right?
Speaker 2:Or he's got that, or he might know. Yeah, exactly, yeah Something like that.
Speaker 1:So I was very, very nervous whenever he'd come around, and not because he would ever try and touch or anything like that.
Speaker 2:So, there was no question about it, but you had some pressure on yourself. I had some pressure.
Speaker 1:So I knew something different was about me. I didn't know what it was called. I didn't know what it was. I don't know about that.
Speaker 1:And then I, as a younger man, like I'd started playing around with guys from the age of around 11, all right. So therefore, I knew that there was definitely something gay, because I knew what gay was by that 11, 12, 13 and all that kind of stuff. So I knew that hanging out and making out and sucking out the guy's dicks and whatever it was gay, right. So I knew that there was definitely gay stuff that I was doing. Right, I also had a couple of girls along that time period as well, um, but I knew that the guys far outweighed. But I knew it was wrong, right, no matter what anyone could tell me, that was definitely wrong because it was always done under covers, under darkness.
Speaker 1:Yep, if I was playing atari with the guy down the road, it would be oh, man's playing with a guy, yeah, yeah, it'd be like, oh, we'll do this after everyone else has gone to bed. Right, we'll do it in the tent after, when everyone else has no chance of catching us, yeah. So it was definitely discreet, discreet, disc, discreet, discreet. I got caught by the police in a public toilet when I was 18 years old, or just around the 18, must have been 18 and a half or something like that. Had to go to court. Got asked by my mum then are you gay? Because it's okay if you're gay, so she was quite supportive.
Speaker 2:She was okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I said no, definitely not gay, I was just experimenting, all right. I wish I had have taken that opportunity then.
Speaker 2:But you don't, because you're so scared inside, aren't?
Speaker 1:you Now retrospectively, I should have seen the signs that my mum would have been perfectly fine, right, my mum had this boyfriend, leon um, and they'd go out to the city, to the club, and she'd come back and they'd say we've been to the taxi club with all the and excuse the word, because that's a word that they used to use back then been to the taxi club with all the trannies and the homos and stuff like that, and we've been out partying all night. She said I had this really gorgeous drag queen that was sitting on her lap and we were singing along and was telling all these stories. So I knew mum was okay with gay people Yep, but it still didn't make it okay for me to be gay Yep, all right Now. So 18 was when I got caught.
Speaker 1:I'd seen all these other behaviours where I should have known that mum was fine, yep, but my circle being my sister, like my younger sister, because my older sister had moved away to go to the army by that stage as well my younger sister, her friends, all my friends, because they were a pretty tight circle. Anytime again, when that gay stuff was spoken about, it was always in a negative connotation, right. So it was never a good thing right Now, I think when my sister came, my older sister came back into my life and stuff like that and we'd go out occasionally and I'd go all to these lesbian slash gay bars with her, had she come out at that point herself.
Speaker 1:Okay, so she still hasn't come out technically, no, we've always known, but she's never actually officially come out at that point herself. Okay, so she still hasn't come out technically, no, we've always known, but she's never actually officially come out and said I'm a lesbian.
Speaker 2:She has now Okay.
Speaker 1:But there's a running joke that she still hadn't told Dad up until a couple of years ago. Okay, we obviously knew right all along. But yeah, so it wasn't until I decided I was actually going to leave my workplace and go and move down to Leichhardt to work at Franklin's Big Fresh back then, and I was going to move in with my sister's girlfriend and my mum said again are you moving because you're gay? And my answer was and it's like I wish I could turn back time, but it was yeah, I am, but it's not my fault, it's just how I was born and I was so defensive, so aggressive about it. And I'm sitting there and I'm thinking she's gone, there's nothing wrong with it. Like you know, you're my son and she'd known about it like having, like. Then my mum was the most supportive person, so I could have all those years of Anguish, of anguish and stress and anxiety about actually coming out.
Speaker 1:we could have had the best time, Because then what happened was, when I did finally come out, I'd take mum down to the Albury Hotel for anyone that's from Sydney back in the late 80s early 90s. Oh, early 90s it would have been. Yeah, all the way through 2000 sometime. The Albury Hotel was the pub that you'd go to and they had this hot barman, Derek. Derek, if you're still around somewhere, look me up, I'm sure you'd still be hot.
Speaker 2:Was he gay Of?
Speaker 1:course he was gay, okay, but he was gorgeous. But all the drag queens would be there and we'd take mum and mum would be sitting at the corner of the bar, we'd be sitting there having drinks together and we'd be checking out drag shows together.
Speaker 2:She'd be checking out drag shows together.
Speaker 1:She'd be pointing out man, she'd go, that one's hot, you sure he's gay, you sure he doesn't want to come home with me? So this is the thing is like competition. I literally had no reason to be fearful. Yeah, okay, now, apart from my friend's circle. So I did get told from my sister when she, when I initially came out which one From my younger sister. Right, can you please not tell anyone, because my partner then will probably dump me. And so I kind of withheld it a little bit. Now again, I don't hold anything against her for that, because she had literally five minutes to work out that I was gay and everything that came with it. Right, she'd heard the same negative slurs from our community and stuff like that. Now, she's been extremely supportive of me over the years, as has her partner.
Speaker 1:When I did eventually come out to the rest of the family and the group and everyone like that, they were all fine, there was no issue with it. Most of them said yeah, we know, right, we've known for years, we're just waiting for you to tell us. So the thing is that it wasn't nearly as big as it should have been. Like you know, it wasn't the big issue that it was going to that I thought it was going to be. It was just me and it was my time and it was my. But again, you have to be ready, you have to be willing to just put it out there. So, um, retrospectively it it wasn't the big issue that I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 2:So I again, I was like 21, 22 max probably find that probably at least 70%, maybe even higher would say the same thing.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's irrelevant.
Speaker 1:The people that are in my life or that stayed in my life, the people that disappeared from my life. I couldn't even remember them now, quite honestly. And the people that are in my life are the really important ones because they support my life, and I'll say choices, choices, but it's not a choice.
Speaker 2:Did you find that when you came out that you started gravitating more towards the gay?
Speaker 1:scene? Well, I did, because I was definitely discovering it. But did you go bam bam like that? Well, I came out. And then, when I came out, and I don't know who pointed me in the direction it may have even been my mum, probably your penis. No, no, it was a group run by Akon, okay, yep, and it was called Young and Out West.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yep, and it might have been mum that said go and meet up some other people right that are actually so she was pretty smart. Yeah, yeah, yeah, people right that are actually so she's pretty smart. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but I went into this group and I met people, and I met people like darren, my first partner there. Yep, um, I met lots of people. I met michael. I've told you about michael. He was one of the facilitators who had no arms.
Speaker 1:Um, you did basically yeah um, I met a lot of really good people. I met some fantastic people Trent, who was a really nice young kid that desperately wanted me to take his virginity, so I did. When I say kid, he was like 19, 20. I was 21, so he was a couple of years younger, but he was from the Hills District and he was such a handsome boy as well. And he was such a handsome boy as well, but yeah, so basically that sort of helped me come into terms with who I was and how did you feel?
Speaker 2:Did you feel like euphoric the day after at the same time, or did you feel? I know you had that little negativity with your mum when you said, yeah, I'm gay.
Speaker 1:It wasn't, you know, I think from then, because I'd moved at the same time.
Speaker 2:Did you feel the weight off your shoulders?
Speaker 1:Oh the weight flew off my shoulders right, yeah, but then, because I had actually moved at the same time, I kind of left that whole blanket of homophobia, so you were literally reinventing yourself as a new person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I left it all behind me. I moved out of Mount Druitt into Ashfield right, which is close. I was working at Leichhardt, so I was working close to the city, which we all knew that was the place to be. Leichhardt was very much a cosmopolitan place to be. I met friends. I met my friend Courtney. Actually I think I met Tiffany first, which was her sister, and then later I met Courtney. But then there was people in the deli, like my friend Mel, that they were fine with me being gay.
Speaker 1:They all took me under their wing, like the old Italian ladies and stuff like that in the deli, or like Sandra and Patricia, all those ladies from the deli, or like sandra and patricia all those ladies from the deli. They took this little gay boy under their wing and they made sure that I was actually okay. They'd sort of like apart from the friends and because I was living with my sister's girlfriend at the time, she made sure I was okay. Um, so there was a lot of people that were looking out for me. So it was really quite comforting and quite and how did you find the community?
Speaker 2:did you find it overwhelming?
Speaker 1:because I did so, okay, I was, and still am, an extremely good looking young boy. I was blonde, right, I was fit. You're not blonde, you're not, I was blonde, okay.
Speaker 2:You're not blonde now.
Speaker 1:Fuck you, I'm bald as a badger. I had beautiful blonde hair, right? Yeah, I was fit. I've seen bitches. Yeah, I was fit, I'd do me, I'd do me ten times over. Probably Do me nonstop, all night long.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, no.
Speaker 1:I'll leave that to Lionel. But yeah, I was a good-looking young boy so I was no shortage of getting attention. You were like a go-go boy. No, no, no, I didn't go to that extreme.
Speaker 2:No, but I'm saying in the looks. Could have been. Yeah, Could have been something.
Speaker 1:I was sort of like, yeah, I was definitely quite an attractive young man and had everything in the right place and sort of was discovering how to use it and getting that attention coming out of Mount Truett where I was. Basically the attention that I was getting from living out west was basically going to glory holes and getting my dick sucked by old men.
Speaker 2:So you went rapid, I went rapid Deep in yeah, yeah, getting my dick sucked by old men, so you went rapid, I went rapid, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I went straight in and I had all the fun and didn't stop, okay. And then I had a relationship probably for three years, then had a few years off there, then jumped into another relationship and then had a few years, but yeah, so back when I was, yeah, I was in my prime and I was living it up, but yeah, so coming out was definitely a really good experience for me. Yeah, I don't know many people that coming out hasn't been a great experience.
Speaker 2:Mine was definitely a great experience, you find your family.
Speaker 2:It was. For me, I think, going into the this social scene and, you know, meeting people was definitely harder because I had to build a trust, but I didn't have a clue what the fuck I was doing, yeah, and I was putting more pressure on myself again. So, even though I was happy with myself being out and I didn't have to hide and I didn't have to go, you know not that I ever cheated on my wife or anything. Actually, I mean, I never did any of that until three years after the marriage finished, yeah, and I didn't cheat then because I was not in a relationship, um, but for me, going out and venturing out into the gay community was difficult because it was a steep learning curve yeah, it's massive, and again.
Speaker 2:I mean, there was some times I was excited, other times I was fearful and other times I was like really surprised.
Speaker 1:But your learning curve is also partially why we started this podcast. Dave was to actually educate people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly that's right, but I know there are still people out there now. And that moves us on to another part of the questions I want to ask you as well, because obviously, now we've talked about coming out ourselves, we've gone far further than what we thought we were going to do we did yeah but again, we will carry on anyway and hopefully people will still carry on listening.
Speaker 1:I hope that people we have bought people- it's definitely going to be a long one, yeah well, it always is a long one with you, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 2:anyway. So yeah, I was going to say to um in, in regards to you coming out, do you still know people in your life, either be friends, family, work colleagues, anybody that is still in the closet that you know, that you think would benefit from coming out?
Speaker 1:well, look, I have one and we don't talk anymore because they were a negative person in my life.
Speaker 2:Song references man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's Cliff Richard. I love Cliff.
Speaker 2:He was gay.
Speaker 1:He kept well with it, though yeah, no, he hasn't come out yet still, so like he's rumoured to be gay, all right, so no one getting their cell phone on any legal action.
Speaker 1:But I have somebody that I used to call a friend. I don't call them a friend, and not because they have made them out. Yeah, yep, and he was just he. There was no denying, absolutely. People meet this person right and they assume he's gay right. And he is. I know for a fact he's gay right because I've caught men leaving his house right. So he's living in denial. Yeah, he's got a wife. She's living in denial. Also, she was given a note from one of my exes exes basically telling her all about what her husband does, where he goes, who he does it with, when he does it, and she chose to say that was just a vindictive person that was being horrible towards them. This guy had no reason to do anything horrible towards them, but I know this guy's gay, he knows he's gay.
Speaker 2:His wife knows guy's gay, he knows he's gay.
Speaker 1:His wife knows he's gay. His wife knows he's gay, but he's choosing not to come out because his parents. He thinks that they'll actually think less of him. Is he in the?
Speaker 2:same age group. His parents know Is he in the same age group?
Speaker 1:Slightly older than me, so probably 58. So someone that should be living his life Should be living his life right, and he's a miserable cunt right.
Speaker 1:I cannot like. Hence why we're not friends anymore, because any time you'd meet, there'd be another sad story, there'd be another bad thing, like it's just a horrible human as well, so not a nice person either. But if he came out and chose to live authentically, he might not be that person. And then what he doesn't realize is that if he came out earlier in life, um, and chose to live an authentic life, then his wife could have actually moved on with her life, rather than being trapped with somebody that's going to actually cheat on her whole entire life.
Speaker 1:Right, because it is cheating, right, just because it is oh yeah, if you're with a guy, you're with a guy that's still cheating on the wife. Yep, right, um, so it's not.
Speaker 2:It's not not cheating, because it's the same sex well, this is the thing that I found when I came out. Um was there are a lot of married guys out there and there are a lot of married guys that are playing behind their wives' backs. But you know one I know several I probably know at least ten, matt, I'm not saying that in a thing, but I do and each and every one of them has got a different background, different story, and I respect that 100%.
Speaker 1:We would never out anyone. That's the it's a personal choice.
Speaker 2:It's a personal um. It's a personal journey. And circumstances, careers, work, you know, everything comes into play, right. So I don't judge anybody. The only thing I do wish is that they could be true to themselves, yep, and take that leap of faith, because it will be a journey that they will eventually look at and say I'm glad I did it. You know, I mean, but it's not for me to say that to them, it's not for me to do it for them, and I certainly wouldn't out anybody because, at the end of the day, that's not who I am and not what I would want to do, you know I mean.
Speaker 2:Correct. But I just wish for their own happiness, that they could live their life the way we are now and just reassure them and give them a hug and say look, you know it'll all be all right, Because it will be. It will be all right and it will be better for you and it'll be better for everyone.
Speaker 1:It is tough actually, right, regardless of what age you are.
Speaker 2:It does make me sad that people have to still live this way because, again, through peer pressure, through society, through anything else that is putting pressure on them to hide their identity, it is a sad way to live your life because you're not getting the full you yeah.
Speaker 1:But what I also encourage anyone that is living a closeted life to think about, if you're married, for example, is to think about the other person in your relationship right, which is the wife. Now you're worried about them finding out about you or whatever their case may be, but think about the life. If you really cared for them and you really loved them, think of the life they could go on to have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they can get remarried. Who's to say that?
Speaker 1:they couldn't have the love of their life. Even if they don't have the love of their life, they might. We've got, I've got some friends right that basically have separated from their partners and it hasn't been because their partners have come out or anything like that, but they've actually gone on to live a really good life and they go out with girlfriends. They go on holidays every year on a cruise right or to different destinations. Now, they would never have done that had they stayed with their husband, right, they'd just happily be working along, going on their little caravan trips every year, which they'd enjoy. But now this person absolutely lives it up and you see their holidays and you have chats with them and they're living the best life possible. And if they were stuck in that marriage right, whether it be for whatever reason, then they wouldn't be living that life. Sorry, I'm playing putzies again, treading on your feet no, I thought I thought it was it.
Speaker 2:I think that was me. I thought it was a dog trying to eat your feet.
Speaker 1:No, no but yeah, so I'd say um, come out, I think of everyone else and again.
Speaker 2:That is that is so right. I mean the end day, you're denying that other person not only the truth, but also them, allowing them to move on in their lives, rather than being resentful, because they will be resentful the longer you leave it, the more it's going to affect them, the more it'll affect children, the more it'll affect anybody in your life. And I think you only live once. Yeah, correct, just enjoy your life, have fun, have a. You only live once. Yeah, correct, just enjoy your life. Have fun, happy, authentic life. Yeah, don't hurt anybody, because all you're doing is hurting yourself. You know, correct, correct?
Speaker 1:um, so, yeah, so that's so that's been coming out. That's yeah, it's been a been a long one.
Speaker 2:We've got to say the we, because we did have a listener's question that we're going to say but I think it's such a long winded thing and we've already discussed pretty much everything that that person was going to ask us anyway through our own conversation here. So, yeah, um, so if you are struggling to come out, there are people out there to help you psychologists, there are companies, there are organizations like I said, acon's a great, um great toolkit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, you've got the travel project which is online, which is but look, also reach out to us, because we've had people that have actually contacted us and we know they've actually sent these emails to say thank you for you know.
Speaker 1:Thank you for the info because they've helped them come out a little bit and they've come out later in life and everybody's got a different journey.
Speaker 2:but if they can relate to one of us or to both of us, or to anything we've said today, then that's a positive and at the end of the day, you know, being positive, being happy being yourself is definitely the way forward in life, and if you are struggling with coming out, you wouldn't from sydney and you want to sit down and have a coffee or a beer with us yeah, absolutely please do.
Speaker 1:We're from western suburbs of sydney and we're always happy to catch up with people like I've made so many friends, it's a safe space with us as well. We'll happily listen. We don't't judge. Happily listen. And if you are super hot and the thing is it hasn't stopped me either, matt.
Speaker 2:It just hasn't stopped me going forward and making not only gay friends I've made lots of. I've made tons of friends, lots of friends, tons of friends, all different. And again, what I've learned over the years is people, do not judge me.
Speaker 1:We've got so many good friends that we see every week.
Speaker 2:Because we're authentic, all different age groups that embrace us and say and they come and give us a hug. Every day and every week we see them and they embrace us and they look at us and say oh they're the boys, you know how are you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it makes me feel like I'm normal. We're royalty Because I're normal. I don't know about normal and everybody's normal. I don't want to be normal, everybody's normal, if normal is a normal word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, so this has been our coming out pod. We hope you've enjoyed. Remember, national Coming Out Day is the 11th of October, a little while away yet. We'll remind you as it gets closer, yep. But if you have any questions or anything you want us to talk about, hit us up on any of our socials at Fully Grown Homos Podcast or our email address at fullygrownhomospodcast at gmailcom. And I've been Matt and I've been Dave and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2:See you, goodbye, bye.
Speaker 1:That's a wrap from us. We've been your Fully Grown Homos and we look forward to opening your mind, your ears and your curiosities. Don't forget to like, comment and subscribe and share our podcast with your curious friends. You can contact us on fullygrownhomospodcast at gmailcom or any of our socials. Fully Grown Homos Podcast podcast.
